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6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant

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Re: 6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant

#71

Post by zargon »

kybernetikos wrote: post #68
shell0x wrote: post #21

Anyone of you got more bitcoins then me?(0) ;) I tried to get a single bitcoin for multiple times, but it never worked out ;) I guess my hardware is too bad.

It amazes me that the initial bitcoin set up was basically a pyramid scheme and this doesn't seem to put anyone off. Not to mention the fact that all that computing work is wasted doing nothing useful . I'd much rather see grid computing networks offer signed certificates proving that you did a certain amount of work for them in place of money, but also allow you to swap them for cash. That way, the computing power d…

The computing work secures the block chain. That's the opposite of wasted.

In your computation certificate proposal, would you be able to trade certificates? If so, each grid network would be able to trade counterfeited certs (generate certs for which no work was performed). If not, it isn't a currency. Not to mention that exponential increases in computing power would cause the system to be inflationary, where a goal of bitcoin is to be deflationary.

Re: 6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant

#72

Post by paulsutter »

maayank wrote: post #35
paulsutter wrote: post #18

I hope it's for real. I was just looking for a backup debit card for international travel. This would give me a low-risk but high-utility reason to finally try bitcoin. And avoid opening another damn bank account

An honest question: assuming you have more than 1 credit card, aren't all/most of them international? Are local-only credit cards the norm in the U.S.? And do you really need a bank account per credit/debit card? I'd assume you have "external" credit/debit cards, where the only connection to the account is that it is charged monthly.

Good question.

- You never know when you'll have a fraud alert and a disabled card. When you're travelling overseas, even if you call ahead to notify the card company, you're a lot more likely to get a fraud alert. You know how you can get stuck on hold with your card company, lost in touch-tone hell? Well imagine that on cell phone roaming charges with a dying battery on a noisy street corner.

- You never know what will be accepted. Some machines only take chip and PIN (which is the norm in Europe and Asia, they think signing a receipt is weird), sometimes a clerk doesn't know how to do chip and sign or swipe and sign (which is universal here in the US).

- Most of all, you're in a country where you dont speak the language, the ATMs look different, you might not be able to read the signs or even have a conversation with a cab driver.

When your card gets rejected, you want to have a backup. So, two credit cards (from two different providers) and two debit cards (from two different providers).

Re: 6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant

#73

Post by eggnet »

otto wrote: post #44
maayank wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An honest question: assuming you have more than 1 credit card, aren't all/most of them international? Are local-only credit cards the norm in the U.S.? And do you really need a bank account per credit/debit card? I'd assume you have "external" credit/debit cards, where the only connection to the account is that it is charged monthly.

Many cards in America have foreign transaction fees. There may be other fees associated as well. That said I have looked into cards with no foreign transaction fees for future international travel. They do exist, but one more issue is making sure they support "chip and pin" for European countries.

Wouldn't there be a fee converting to and from bitcoins?

Re: 6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant

#74

Post by doasyouplease »

anologwintermut wrote: post #67
hammersend wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had me up until the "very little regulation and no legal recourse" part at the end. Theft is theft and believe me, there are regulations against that.

There is regulation against theft( though does any legal authority investigate bitcoin thefts?) . I meant regulations dealing what bitcoin exchanges can do with your money or what steps they have to take to protect it. For example, although I don't think any bitcoin exchanges loan out money yet, if they did, there is no amount they are required to keep as a minimum balance to cover withdrawals (unless the government…

... You use the exchange for exactly that, exchanging bitcoins, not holding them. Yes an exchange may possess your coins right after you convert your dollars to BTC, but you can just put them in your own account to be held for free.... That wouldn't give the exchange much time to do anything with your money.

Re: 6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant

#75

Post by gph1 »

mkup wrote: post #36
quotemstr wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has deflation baked into the system. Deflation is _terrible_ for the economy because it encourages people to hide cash under mattresses instead of spending it on useful projects. (Or in more abstract terms, deflation raises the minimum viable rate of return on investment.) We've learned this lesson well. All the really terrible depressions --- the 1870s, the 1930s --- featured crippling deflation that kicked…

This is what one school of thought says. Another school of thought says that people still buy deflating computers, mobile phones and other electronics, and Intel would have gone bankrupt long time ago if "mattress theory of deflation" is valid. Another school of thought also says that inflation is a second form (after the taxes) of government oppression over the citizens; and that truely free currency should avoid bo…

He's talking about economy wide price level deflation, not some particular group of products. Inflation is a necessary element of capitalism, since productivity growth would have a deflationary outcome if prices staid flat.

Re: 6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant

#76

Post by hammersend »

anologwintermut wrote: post #67
hammersend wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had me up until the "very little regulation and no legal recourse" part at the end. Theft is theft and believe me, there are regulations against that.

There is regulation against theft( though does any legal authority investigate bitcoin thefts?) . I meant regulations dealing what bitcoin exchanges can do with your money or what steps they have to take to protect it. For example, although I don't think any bitcoin exchanges loan out money yet, if they did, there is no amount they are required to keep as a minimum balance to cover withdrawals (unless the government…

I would imagine that even if for some strange reason the Secret Service (who likely would investigate something like this) didn't pick up your claim you would still have grounds for a civil suit. Just insert sympathetic jury!

Re: 6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant

#77

Post by [deleted] »

zargon wrote: post #71
kybernetikos wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me that the initial bitcoin set up was basically a pyramid scheme and this doesn't seem to put anyone off. Not to mention the fact that all that computing work is wasted doing nothing useful . I'd much rather see grid computing networks offer signed certificates proving that you did a certain amount of work for them in place of money, but also allow you to swap them for cash. That way, the computing power d…

The computing work secures the block chain. That's the opposite of wasted. In your computation certificate proposal, would you be able to trade certificates? If so, each grid network would be able to trade counterfeited certs (generate certs for which no work was performed). If not, it isn't a currency. Not to mention that exponential increases in computing power would cause the system to be inflationary, where a goa…

[deleted]

Re: 6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant

#78

Post by kybernetikos »

zargon wrote: post #71
kybernetikos wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me that the initial bitcoin set up was basically a pyramid scheme and this doesn't seem to put anyone off. Not to mention the fact that all that computing work is wasted doing nothing useful . I'd much rather see grid computing networks offer signed certificates proving that you did a certain amount of work for them in place of money, but also allow you to swap them for cash. That way, the computing power d…

The computing work secures the block chain. That's the opposite of wasted. In your computation certificate proposal, would you be able to trade certificates? If so, each grid network would be able to trade counterfeited certs (generate certs for which no work was performed). If not, it isn't a currency. Not to mention that exponential increases in computing power would cause the system to be inflationary, where a goa…

> In your computation certificate proposal, would you be able to trade certificates? If so, each grid network would be able to trade counterfeited certs (generate certs for which no work was performed).

Yes, you'd be able to trade certificates and portions of certificates. The point is that the certificates have some real value too since they are essentially vouchers for more computer time on the grid network (some percentage of the time you contributed in the first place), that's why a grid provider wouldn't want to distribute more certificates than necessary.

There are a number of ways around the inflationary problem, the simplest would be for the certificates to be in whole grid computing seconds, so as the grid grew larger and more able, the certificates would increase in value at the same rate.

By the way being deflationary is a really bad idea - it stops investment and shrinks the whole pie of economic activity. Perhaps it wouldn't matter too much for a parallel currency, but for your main currency it'd result in massive unemployment.

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