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Crypto has become the ultimate swamp asset

economist.com

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Re: Crypto has become the ultimate swamp asset

#71

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

cherryteastain wrote: post #7
rimbo789 wrote: post #4

Crypto was a huge mistake. It should have been rigorously regulated right out of the gate to the point of being unusable for anyone. I have yet to see a use case that doesn’t amount to buying drugs or defrauding rubes.

Sending money without government interference to relatives living in countries with strict foreign exchange controls (Argentina, Lebanon, Turkey...) is one quite legit use case.

> is one quite legit use case.

While it is useful for this case, it is not 'legit', in that its purpose is to by-pass (break even) laws of the country with the capital controls. In that sense, money laundering is also a legit use-case.

Re: Crypto has become the ultimate swamp asset

#72

Post by rollcat »

jMyles wrote: post #25
rimbo789 wrote: post #4

Crypto was a huge mistake. It should have been rigorously regulated right out of the gate to the point of being unusable for anyone. I have yet to see a use case that doesn’t amount to buying drugs or defrauding rubes.

> I have yet to see a use case that doesn’t amount to buying drugs Society has been struggling for decades to overcome prohibition via political channels, and watching as multiple generations have been damaged by its impact on local economies, civil liberties, and the boon to criminal cartels. Then, a mathematical solution arises which unambiguously undermines this regime, and somehow that's a bad thing?!

It's not a "mathematical" solution. The maths are cryptographic hashes and consensus protocols, means to some end - exchanging value.

You're proposing that it's a technological solution to a societal problem. These only last as long as a particular regulatory body / regime allows them to.

Mining. It has long been infeasible for anyone without prior capital and investment. Ban that - you can easily get a lead through the electricity bill - viola.

Private key custody. Even technologically-inclined individuals mess it up from time to time. Hence the proliferation of centralised services to keep the keys ("wallets") for you. Block the exchange. QED.

Re: Crypto has become the ultimate swamp asset

#73

Post by zkmon »

Where would the crypto millionaires spend their money? They have to chase some real world assets such as homes, jacking up prices for those. So, for someone who invested in the real world assets, they see their asset value going up. It hardly matters where you invest. It's all in the same pond.

Re: Crypto has become the ultimate swamp asset

#74

Post by h2782 »

swalsh wrote: post #61
croes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah lets combine two technologies that need lots of energy. Climate change is still a problem

A tired old debate devoid of facts. The chains I advocated for are proof of stake, and AI is a useful system worth the energy it uses. Should we not consume energy at all?

You've stated you're tired in several threads. Maybe you should take a break from the internet for a few minutes?

Re: Crypto has become the ultimate swamp asset

#75

Post by liotier »

jsheard wrote: post #12
tacker2000 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who should regulate it? Due to its nature it is inherently extremely hard to regulate.

The technology is hard to regulate, but the exchanges where the overwhelming majority of fiat-crypto trades happen are regular old businesses which can be regulated or sanctioned just like anything else. Blockchain magic wouldn't stop the feds from seizing Coinbase's assets and hauling Brian Armstrong off to prison if they wanted to.

Just like money laundering: choke it at the interfaces with the legitimate financial system.

Re: Crypto has become the ultimate swamp asset

#76

Post by ecocentrik »

cherryteastain wrote: post #7
rimbo789 wrote: post #4

Crypto was a huge mistake. It should have been rigorously regulated right out of the gate to the point of being unusable for anyone. I have yet to see a use case that doesn’t amount to buying drugs or defrauding rubes.

Sending money without government interference to relatives living in countries with strict foreign exchange controls (Argentina, Lebanon, Turkey...) is one quite legit use case.

Cryptocurrency also empowers kleptocrats, dictators and warmongers to bypass sanctions and international banking controls, making it more likely that politically and economically oppressive states will thrive and persist for longer. The benefit to the individual is marginal compared to the benefits to actors that might limit that individual's other freedoms. Also, foreign exchange controls aren't the only form of taxation and there's nothing stopping governments from increasing taxation on something else to make up the difference.

Most arguments for cryptocurrency are just as weak as this one.

Re: Crypto has become the ultimate swamp asset

#78

Post by Zanfa »

charcircuit wrote: post #56
rimbo789 wrote: post #4

Crypto was a huge mistake. It should have been rigorously regulated right out of the gate to the point of being unusable for anyone. I have yet to see a use case that doesn’t amount to buying drugs or defrauding rubes.

It prevents centralized entities being the gatekeepers to the modern financial world. The US maintaining their own digital version of cash would also work, but the government is slow, and does not want to compete against these centralized entities due to being advantaged as the government controls the currency itself. Payment processors essentially get to dictate what is and is not allowed to be financially viable wh…

> It prevents centralized entities being the gatekeepers to the modern financial world.

In theory, but it doesn’t in practice. Most crypto transfers never make it to the blockchain, they happen entirely in SQL databases of exchanges.

Also, Tether has complete control over USDT and can block or reverse any payment or freeze any account it wants. No bank or payment processor in the world has such centralized control over the traditional financial system.

If anything, crypto is more centralized by comparison. Both in terms of payment processors as well as wealth distribution.

Re: Crypto has become the ultimate swamp asset

#79

Post by imhoguy »

hkt wrote: post #30
imhoguy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kidnapping for ransom was a thing in human history even before money was invented. And money could be lost in many other irreversible scenarios, like fire, government confiscation or devaluation. So was speculation. Crypto is just another value carrier. Password is just a risk factor, like trust in govt is.

Banks can potentially act as gateways that prevent large transactions that are otherwise possible with crypto. They can do this simply by saying that for any amount above a certain level, you need to attend in person. The whole "time immemorial" argument is a little silly when we put it in the context of modernity: we have safeguards people didn't have "before money was invented" because we're the beneficiaries of a…

My point wasn't just to awe crypto. For me it is just another asset/vehicle for diversification.

And you never know when safeguards will turn against the beneficiaries, like Freedom Convoy https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergencies-act-banks-ottaw...

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