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After months of coding with LLMs, I'm going back to using my brain

albertofortin.com

71–80 of 229 posts

Re: After months of coding with LLMs, I'm going back to using my brain

#71
post #2

This rings true to me. I still use LLMs heavily . However, I now follow two rules: * Do not delegate any deep thought to them. For example, when thinking through a difficult design problem, I do it myself. * Deeply review and modify any code they generate. I go through it line-by-line and edit it thoroughly. I have to do this because I find that much of what they generate is verbose, overly defensive, etc. I don't ca…

I delegate all kinds of deep analysis to the AI, but it's to create detailed plans with specific implementation steps and validation criteria, backed by data in reproducible reports (i.e. "generate a script to generate this json data and another to render this data"). Plans have a specific goal that is reflected in the report ("migrated total should be 100%"). It's still an iterative process, the generators and plans have to be refined as it misses edge cases, but that's plans in general, AI or no.

It takes a good hour or two to draw up the plans, but it's the kind of thing that would take me all day to do, possibly several as my ADHD brain rebels against the tedium. AI can do yeomans work when it just wings it, and sometimes I have just pointed at a task and did it in one shot, but they work best when they have detailed plans. Plus it's really satisfying to be able to point at the plan doc and literally just say "make it so".

Re: After months of coding with LLMs, I'm going back to using my brain

#72
post #8

I don't get the whole "all-in" mentality around LLMs. I'm an iOS dev by trade, I continue to do that as I always have. The difference now is I'll use an LLM to quickly generate a one-off view based on a design. This isn't a core view of an app, the core functionality, or really anything of importance. It's a view that promotes a new feature, or how to install widgets, or random things. This would normally take me 30-…

How useful the various tools will be depends on the person and the problem. Take two hypothetical people working on different problems and consider if, for example, Cursor would be useful. IF you're a: * 10 year python dev * work almost entirely on a very large, complex python code base * have a pycharm IDE fine tuned over many years to work perfectly on that code base * have very low tolerance for bugs (stable produ…

We finally found a metric to identify the really valuable coders in my company :-)

Re: After months of coding with LLMs, I'm going back to using my brain

#73
So the end game for this is, to a certain extent, does the code quality matter if it does what it is needed?

In the past the quality mattered because maintenance and tech-debt was something that we had to spend time and resources to resolve and it would ultimately slow us down as a result.

But if we have LLMs do we even have "resources" any more? Should we even care if the quality is bad if it is only ever LLMs that touch the code? So long as it works, who cares?

I've heard this positioned in two different ways, from two different directions, but I think they both work as analogies to bring this home:

- do engineers care what machine code a compiler generates, so long as it works? (no, or at least very, very, very rarely does a human look at the machine code output)

- does a CEO care what code their engineers generate, so long as it works? (no)

Its a very very interesting inflection point.

The knee jerk reaction is "yes we care! of course we care about code quality!" but my intuition is that caring about code quality is based on the assumption that bad code = more human engineer time later (bugs, maintenance, refactoring etc).

If we can use a LLM to effectively get an unlimited number of engineer resources whenever we need them, does code quality matter provided it works? Instead of a team of say 5 engineers and having to pick what to prioritise etc, you can just click a button and get the equivalent of 500 engineers work on your feature for 15 minutes and churn out what you need and it works and everyone is happy, should we care about the quality of the code?

We're not there yet - I think the models we have today kinda work for smaller tasks but are still limited with fairly small context windows even for Gemini (I think we'll need at least a 20x-50x increase in context before any meaningfully complex code can be handled, not just ToDo or CRUD etc), but we'll get there one day (and probably sooner than we think)

Re: After months of coding with LLMs, I'm going back to using my brain

#75
post #19

> So I do a “coding review” session. And the horror ensues. Yup. I've spoken about this on here before. I was a Cursor user for a few months. Whatever efficiency gains I "achieved" were instantly erased in review, as we uncovered all the subtle and not-so-subtle bugs it produced. Went back to vanilla VSCode and still use copilot but only when I prompt it to do something specific (scaffold a test, write a migration wi…

What kind of guardrails did you give the agent? Like following SOLID, linting, 100% code coverage, templates, architectural documents before implementing, architectural rules, DRY cleanup cycles, code review guidelines (incl strict rules around consistency), review by another LLM etc?

Re: After months of coding with LLMs, I'm going back to using my brain

#76
Kinda blows my mind that people do this with technology they’ve never used.

If I want to learn something new I won’t vibe code it. And if I vibe code I’ll go with tech I have at least some familiarity with so that I can fix the inevitable issues

Re: After months of coding with LLMs, I'm going back to using my brain

#77
> Some days I feel like we’re also being gaslit by LLM providers. Just look at any AI related subreddit, and you’ll see people having completely opposite experiences, with the same exact model, with the same prompt, on the same day. If you code with AI long enough you’ll be able to relate. One day it’s amazing, the next day it’s incredibly stupid.

> Are they throttling the GPUs? Are these tools just impossible to control? What the fuck is going on?

Money and dreams. As everyone knows there’s an obscene amount of money invested in these tools of course. The capitalist class is optimistic their money can finally do the work for them directly instead of having to hire workers.

But more than that, AI is something that’s been alluring to humans forever. I’m not talking about cyberpunk fantasies I’m talking about The Mechanical Turk, Automata in the Middle Ages, Talos[0]. The desire to create an artificial mind is, if not hardwired into us, at least culturally a strong driver for many. We’re at a point where the test of the computer age for determining if we built AI was so utterly destroyed it’s unclear how to go about judging what comes next.

The hype is understandable if you view if you step back and view it through that lens. Maybe we are at an inflection point and just a bit more scaling will bring us the singularity. Maybe we’ve seen a burst of progress that’ll mostly stall from a consumer perspective for another 5-10 years, like all of the major AI moments before.

If you want to use them effectively it’s the same as any tool. Understand what they are good at and where they flounder. Don’t give up your craft, use them to elevate it.

[0]: https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2019/02/ancient-myths-reve...

Not quite a source but it’s a fun read from 2019 about this.

Re: After months of coding with LLMs, I'm going back to using my brain

#78

So the end game for this is, to a certain extent, does the code quality matter if it does what it is needed? In the past the quality mattered because maintenance and tech-debt was something that we had to spend time and resources to resolve and it would ultimately slow us down as a result. But if we have LLMs do we even have "resources" any more? Should we even care if the quality is bad if it is only ever LLMs that…

LLMs aren't free. The more garbage you accept into your code base the harder will be for LLMs to fix / extend it because it will have context issues.

At this point in history they aren't good enough to just vibe code complex projects as the author figured out in practice.

They can be very useful for most tasks, even niche ones but you can't trust it completely.

Re: After months of coding with LLMs, I'm going back to using my brain

#80
post #27

Go to AI Studio, select Gemini Pro, give it your code, or describe a problem you want to solve, and then tell it that you want to --> discuss This is the best way to get Gemini to be a really good assistant, unless you want to add System Instructions which precisely describe how it should behave. Because if you just say it should solve some problem for you, it eagerly will generate a lot of code for you, or add a lot…

Even limiting its scope can be risky, if it's a complex problem in a niche that's not well-represented in the training data. Been learning Gleam lately, and yesterday when wrapping my head around recursion was starting to give me a headache, I tried to ask Gemini Pro to write a function. It needed to recurse down a tree, perform a function on each child that requires information accumulated from each of its ancestors, and return all nodes in the tree as a flat list.

It returned over 600 lines of code across 3 code blocks, almost all of them commented out for some reason, each with an accompanying essay, and each stuffed with hallucinated and unnecessary helper functions. Apparently Gemini Pro struggles to wrap its weights around recursion more than I do. I just wrote it myself and only needed 26 lines. It's not using tail calls, but hey, my target platform still doesn't support tail call optimization in 2025 anyway.

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