We know a little more about Amazon's satellites • Hacker News Board

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#71

Post by crop_rotation » Sat, May 03, 2025, 6:52 PM UTC

neuroelectron wrote: post #70

parsimo2010 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will undoubtedly sell some aspect of Kuiper through AWS. They already have IP addresses and DNS in the AWS product list, and they have all kinds of data transport services. I don’t know if the government implication is as big as you think, as the US government has been doing secure satellite communications for decades and has already given SpaceX the contract for Starshield. So undoubtedly Kuiper would love a pi…

I didn't know about Starshield. I thought Starlink was supposed to be neutral.

Starshield is like a private totally separate Starlink for the US government (and controlled/operated by the US government). I am not sure what sort of neutrality you were expecting as US government is SpaceX's biggest customer and is obviously a critical infra company.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#72

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 03, 2025, 6:58 PM UTC

Perceval wrote: post #59

parsimo2010 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will undoubtedly sell some aspect of Kuiper through AWS. They already have IP addresses and DNS in the AWS product list, and they have all kinds of data transport services. I don’t know if the government implication is as big as you think, as the US government has been doing secure satellite communications for decades and has already given SpaceX the contract for Starshield. So undoubtedly Kuiper would love a pi…

Space is an AWS region, just like AWS has terrestrial regions. The AWS space region is named Pigeon.

[deleted]

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#73

Post by mrshadowgoose » Sat, May 03, 2025, 6:59 PM UTC

croes wrote: post #4

So more satellites to block the view for astronomers.

I am entirely convinced that absent LEO comsat constellations, people who espouse this sentiment would likely be whining about "useless astronomy taking money away from helping poor people".

If you genuinely care about the field of astronomy, rest assured that the same falling launch costs that have enabled LEO comsat constellations, will enable the launch of fleets of space-based telescopes.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#74

Post by ralfd » Sat, May 03, 2025, 7:11 PM UTC

ks2048 wrote: post #5

perihelions wrote: post #3

The sibling story has further details, https://arstechnica.com/space/2025/04/a-rocket-launch-monday... ( "A rocket launch Monday night may finally jump-start Amazon’s answer to Starlink" )

Interesting bit towards the end: they need the FCC to extend their “network authorization”. And the FCC is of course now headed by a Musk/Trump ally.

I dont expect there to be any problems for an extension. Carr is a market friendly pragmatist and Jeff Bezos is friendly towards Trump.

Musks influence into space seems limited, he couldnt prevent proposed budget cuts to NASA (and NASA is SpaceX biggest customer).

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#75

Post by timewizard » Sat, May 03, 2025, 7:18 PM UTC

mrshadowgoose wrote: post #73

croes wrote: post #4

So more satellites to block the view for astronomers.

I am entirely convinced that absent LEO comsat constellations, people who espouse this sentiment would likely be whining about "useless astronomy taking money away from helping poor people". If you genuinely care about the field of astronomy, rest assured that the same falling launch costs that have enabled LEO comsat constellations, will enable the launch of fleets of space-based telescopes.

> fleets of space-based telescopes.

Isn't one of the nice aspects of astronomy is that you can do quite a bit as an amateur with some decent equipment and a nice vantage point? What value does this fleet have to these people?

> people who espouse this sentiment would likely be whining about "useless astronomy taking money away from helping poor people".

You've constructed a strawman for the purposes of gatekeeping; meanwhile, there very much is a reason to have a rational conversation about the trade offs of these large commercial ventures that impact literally the entire planet.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#76

Post by timewizard » Sat, May 03, 2025, 7:24 PM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #10

croes wrote: post #4

So more satellites to block the view for astronomers.

Progress tends to have downsides. Highways and rail tracks destroy the environment and make areas hard to cross, but I think most people would acknowledge that on balance, having them them is a good thing. In this case, the obvious solution would be to provide a small number of orbital observatories to the astronomy community for free or with heavily subsidized pricing.

> but I think most people would acknowledge that on balance, having them them is a good thing.

Of course it is. The next question is "is it a good thing to let a single owner completely control access to this resource?"

We've actually decided in the case of highways and rails, that no, it's not. There needs to be reasonable and non-discriminatory access to these resources otherwise the trade is not worthwhile. We actually have laws that are meant to enforce this.

> the obvious solution would be to provide a small number of orbital observatories to the astronomy community for free or with heavily subsidized pricing.

Define the "astronomy community." Do we do first come first served or do we have a priority list? How do we handle disputes? Is it just US citizens or do we need to offer this to the entire world? What if the vendor fails to make good on their concessions? What sort of penalties should surround this system?

There's really nothing "obvious" about this.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#77

Post by parsimo2010 » Sat, May 03, 2025, 7:24 PM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #54

parsimo2010 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will undoubtedly sell some aspect of Kuiper through AWS. They already have IP addresses and DNS in the AWS product list, and they have all kinds of data transport services. I don’t know if the government implication is as big as you think, as the US government has been doing secure satellite communications for decades and has already given SpaceX the contract for Starshield. So undoubtedly Kuiper would love a pi…

> already given SpaceX the contract for Starshield Many key things the government buys need to have more than one independent source. This way Kuiper may be just in time.

The federal acquisition regulations have fairly strict rules against acquiring duplicate systems. It totally permits buying systems from multiple vendors, but there are interoperability requirements, and these would have to be interpreted and negotiated. If Kuiper wants to provide services to the government, I’d expect that they would have to be compatible with the Starshield user equipment at a minimum. The military doesn’t want to be lugging around multiple satellite terminals to connect to both the SpaceX and Kuiper versions of Starshield. I doubt the government would go so far as to require SpaceX and Kuiper make their constellations interoperable in space, but even just requiring compatibility with the ground terminals is a pretty big hurdle.

SpaceX has proprietary info in practically all of their comm layers, so interoperability is not easy. The government probably did not buy full rights to the protocols. So the first step to Kuiper getting a piece of the pie is convincing the government that it is worth paying to license SpaceX’s comm standards so Kuiper can use them. That is not an easy task.

There are a dozen hypothetical ways that Kuiper might get a portion of government programs, but the fact is that SpaceX has been embedding themselves into the US government’s space infrastructure for years without competition, and has used that lack of competition to build up a bunch of technical hurdles to purchasing services from other contractors. For the past several years there has been no reason for the government to spend money and effort to prevent these hurdles because there was no other contractor that might be able to offer a similar service. So SpaceX has got a pretty sweet position right now, and Kuiper is going to have to invest heavily before the government changes course.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#78

Post by timewizard » Sat, May 03, 2025, 7:26 PM UTC

voidfunc wrote: post #35

az09mugen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just cross the fingers to not witness a Kessler syndrome : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

You'll be long dead before it matters.

Move fast and break things.

Try to be dead before you have to pay for it.

The "hacker ethic" has been redefined.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#79

Post by thrance » Sat, May 03, 2025, 7:30 PM UTC

gus_massa wrote: post #17

ks2048 wrote: post #6

I wonder how competition will play out against StarLink. People just choose which billionaire they like better?

Nah, people will chose on price, reliability, price, speed, price and free gigas.

The myth of the rational consumer again, of homo economicus.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#80

Post by thrance » Sat, May 03, 2025, 7:31 PM UTC

voidfunc wrote: post #35

az09mugen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just cross the fingers to not witness a Kessler syndrome : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

You'll be long dead before it matters.

That's what they thought in the 70s when they discovered climate change. Look where we are now. Is basic concern for others a sin in our current world?