Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not much worse than every other post being about AI bullshit tbh.
I have the same complaint. If AI can automate a whoopie cushion it gets a post.
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AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
71–80 of 104 posts
Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
> AFD obviously still exists so a court has not banned them. Innocent until proven guilty. A court can only ban them after the parliament has voted to ban them. One of the hurdles on getting the parliament to vote on this topic has been the outstanding decision by this body, if it's really "gesichert rechtsextrem". At least in many previous cases surrounding this question (mostly libel cases), courts have argued that…
> There would be no reason to ban a party if they could be ignored (see the NPD) But this is the problem. It means that a party being illegal isn't such a big deal in and of itself. It's only a problem if it challenges the mainstream parties. You can see why people would think it's just a political maneuver if they're trying to ban X party only when many people vote for them. Bonus points for this party portending to…
Only two parties have been banned in Germany's post-war history. Banning a party is a rightfully a huge hurdle, because it goes both ways: While it can be a part of a self-defence mechanism of democracy it is also a way in which Hitler & Co consolidated their power. Hence it can be only used after a ruling of the Constitutional Court – it is in a way a constitutional question.
> ... right away
Apart from the constitutional hurdles there is also the question of "right away": The AfD of the early 2010s is not the same party as today. Back then they were ... well cranky but not extreme. Banning it in 2013 would have been unjust. Over the decade it moved further and further to the right. Pretty much all the founders and bigwigs of the early generation left the party and distanced themselves from it. But radicalisation is a process not a binary switch from one day to the next.
Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is the AfD acting extra-constitutionally? Or are they just proposing to do so? They aren't actually in power, are they? If not, how are they "acting" at all? (Not German, so I don't know. Honest questions from an incomplete understanding.)
I'm sorry, your definition of being extremists requires them to be the dominant party and actively committing a genocide? They promised they'll do it. They have ideology consistent with doing it. They got caught talking about how they'll do it. They need to be stopped not only before they are in total control and do it, they need to be stopped before they shift the Overton window.
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Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing. They could be literally Hitler or literally Gandi for all I know. I'm not in Germany and I don't follow them. The only contact I have is reading French newspapers about how some "far right" party is gaining traction over there. I did note that now that they're gaining more votes, they've become more extremist (according to the same French media). Bonus points for them being considered somewhat "close" to the…
This is a lot to say that you have no idea what the AfD situation actually is and haven't looked into any of the intelligence reports or even rhetoric/behavior of the party (leaders). Also: > But pretty much everybody who says anything else than "we should abolish borders and allow any and all immigrants who wish to come" or even "maybe we should do something about crime" is labeled "fascist", "extreme right", etc. R…
> This is a lot to say that you have no idea what the AfD situation actually is and haven't looked into any of the intelligence reports or even rhetoric/behavior of the party (leaders).
Sure, but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to be skeptical; their skepticism comes from a lack of information, which is wise and healthy. Their comments don't seem to suggest that they are trying to promote "fascist" or "extreme right" ideas, just that they recognize those terms as dog whistles and choose not to respond like a rabid dog. That is especially healthy in outrage politics.
Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
The party's prevailing ethnic and descent-based understanding of the people is not compatible with the free democratic basic order. It aims to exclude certain population groups from equal participation in society, to subject them to unequal treatment that does not conform to the constitution and thus to assign them a legally devalued status. Specifically, the AfD does not consider German citizens with a history of mi…
The interesting question is why having a different definition of the German people than "anyone who happened to come here and has lived here for a while" should be considered an extreme position. Throwing out all history and ancestry as a core component of the identity of a group of people seems rather like the extreme view.
It seems like the difference is between a cultural understanding and a legal one. The legal bar to be considered German is citizenship, which is what is being discussed in the context of a political party's official policy.
It would be an extreme view to say a person who immigrated to Germany and recently attained citizenship has more German ancestry than someone who was born in Germany to parents who were born in Germany but I don't think anyone is saying that. The point is just that "unequal German" doesn't make sense because German is referring to citizenship; it's either "German" or "not German", never "German, but lesser".
Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is the AfD acting extra-constitutionally? Or are they just proposing to do so? They aren't actually in power, are they? If not, how are they "acting" at all? (Not German, so I don't know. Honest questions from an incomplete understanding.)
I'm sorry, your definition of being extremists requires them to be the dominant party and actively committing a genocide? They promised they'll do it. They have ideology consistent with doing it. They got caught talking about how they'll do it. They need to be stopped not only before they are in total control and do it, they need to be stopped before they shift the Overton window.
> your definition of being extremists requires them to be the dominant party and actively committing a genocide?
No, come on, they never wrote this. Someone else wrote:
> Both the GOP and the AFD are acting extra-constitutionally.
And they asked if that was true, as well as for more details about the AFD's real political actions. That's it. It does not even remotely suggest they think the party is not extremist; in fact, they go as far as to say they have no first-hand knowledge of the situation as an explanation for the questions.
Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
#77I’m not a German so take this with a massive amount of salt, but what makes them extreme-right? Is it the anti-immigrant stance or is there more that I’m missing? They just seem to be regular right wing by American standards.
Do you consider Trump as regular right wing? Or more extreme? Do you think the deportations of "illegals" happening at the moment are justified? What about deportations on legals non-white people? The main reason for the classification seems to be their worldview based on "Blood" and what they consider as a "True German", and how they want to deport (or worse) anyone who does not match this view. Their plans are simi…
Trump is complicated. He doesn't neatly fit into the boxes that our politicians usually fit in. He's neither fully right nor fully left. As I have said elsewhere, I think the left versus right wing distinction is no longer suitable for talking about the current political climate. The traditional politicians from both parties despise him. The Republican rank and file have only accepted him because of his massive popularity. For example, his stimulus checks are definitely a left-wing idea. If I had to label him I would say that he is a right-wing populist.
I'm not sure why you scare quoted illegals. I refuse to use the Orwellian Newspeak that is "undocumented." They have "documents." Just not ones that give them any right to legally be in our country, hence why illegal is the correct term.
The Biden administration encouraged mass illegal immigration into our country on unprecedented scale and it has resulted in a lot of very serious problems, so yes extreme deportation measures are absolutely justified. There are several cases of people who have been violently assaulted or even murdered by violent gang members and criminals who came here illegally. There are people who have suffered horrifically for this and people who would still be alive today if our immigration laws had been properly enforced. Even many of the illegal immigrants themselves are suffering as victims of sex trafficking, poverty wages, indentured servitude, or dying of heat exhaustion in false panels of vehicles that are smuggling them into the country packed like sardines.
Adding to that, they are a costly strain upon our infrastructure and social support systems. Car insurance premiums rose due to the massive rise in uninsured motorists. They have exacerbated already sky high housing costs because they need to live somewhere. When they get sick they go to the emergency room because they lack health insurance. Some of you will say, well that's why you should just have socialized medicine, but it ignores the point that we do not have socialized medicine, which means that someone has to foot the bill for their ER visits for non-emergency medical care. Many of them turn to crime because their opportunities for legal employment are non-existent. They are also a burden on our already struggling public education system, particularly since so many of them do not speak fluent English. They also depress wages. There is a myth that they perform jobs that Americans don't want to do. The truth is that they perform jobs for cheaper than Americans are willing to do them.
Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regarding the AfD, ‘Senior members have been disgraced for playing down Nazi war crimes and accepting suspicious payments from Russia and China. There were calls to ban the party when it was reported party members were at a meeting of neo-Nazis where a “master plan” to expel millions of people from Germany was discussed, including asylum seekers, foreigners with residency rights and “unassimilated citizens”. The AfD…
>accepting suspicious payments from Russia Do you really think the Russians would ever support a Neo Nazi party after what happened in WW2? That's propaganda.
"extreme right" is a super set of "nazi". Putin is extreme right and not a nazi. Netanjahu is considered right extreme, certainly he is not a nazi. the list goes on.
Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
#79this is relevant on HN because AfD is the political party that got massive campaigning support by Musk, directly through endorsements and indirectly on X/twitter.
Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence
#80This is ridiculous, it's subjective, and it's really punitive in a political way. The AFD has made huge gains in Germany, the people voted for that, how dare the intelligence service say oh, this is far right. It's the same as if they had said, it was far left. The government has no business in deciding which party can field candidates. That's the voters to choose.
that's not how that works. they were under active investigation for years already, and it took until now to gather and evaluate the evidence.
they want to overthrow the foundations of the constitutions. turn human rights back into birthright citizen rights and then likes.
that's why they are considered right extreme.
the election outcome is much more a success if their campaigning on slander platforms and bubble platforms like X and tiktok.
Musks very actively supported their campaign not just through personal public endorsement but also through active support on X.