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Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#71

Post by josephg »

maccard wrote: post #43
swiftcoder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the model that has shifted to where apps that used to be a single $10 unlock, now have a recurring subscription of $24.99/month? Personally unclear how much less predatory the shift to subscriptions for trivial feature unlocks is than loot boxes...

What app used to be $10 and is now a $300/year subscription?

I bought GoodNotes 5 and love it. One time purchase, and a great little app. Now GoodNotes 6 is out. Their “most popular plan” is an annual subscription. I just tried to look up how expensive it is - but their pricing page[1] lists a bunch of different plans available. It doesn’t list the actual prices. (Why on earth does a notes app have multiple usage plans? Horrible.)

They have a “one time payment” option. But I thought that’s what I already bought from the App Store when I bought it a couple years ago. I guess not. My totally fine, currently working version (v5) will probably randomly stop working at some point in the future and I’ll lose all my notes, because I suppose breaking totally working software is good business.

Wtf.

https://www.goodnotes.com/pricing

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#72

Post by api »

dartharva wrote: post #11
JustExAWS wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll have to excuse me for not mourning for game developers having to pay 30% for purchases of loot boxes and other pay to win mechanics. It came out in the original Epic trial that this is where 90% of in app revenue comes from.

What about the freemium model that is standard in the industry? Not everything is games.

Yeah, it's mobile, so it's not all games with loot boxes and escalating pay to play. Some of it is infinite slop addictionware, brain rot, gambling, payday loan apps, shovelware, and spyware.

Apple sucks for their monopoly tactics, but it's very hard for me to have any sympathy for the rest of the mobile ecosystem. It's probably the most exploitative toxic software ecosystem.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#73

Post by nozzlegear »

daveidol wrote: post #25
owebmaster wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just like the internet. We don't need Apple to make tens of billions of dollars out of pretending to filter it.

Seriously. Do people not use Safari on their phones to browse the web? iPhone users are still exposed to the same risks via that method and we are doing just fine. This is going to save us all money. It’s a good thing for everyone but Apple.

> This is going to save us all money. It’s a good thing for everyone but Apple.

Is it? I was forced to sign up for Disney Plus using their website last week instead of subscribing through the App Store. Now I have to use their website to cancel my subscription when I finish Andor. Maybe Disney's subscription cancelation process is easy, but how many of my subscriptions are going to dark pattern and gaslight me into thinking I don't want to cancel now?

If Apple had some kind of integration for third party devs to add subscriptions/payments into the App Store so users can cancel them or ask for refunds, and then required devs to use it without regulators getting in the way, I'd be less annoyed.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#74

Post by [deleted] »

coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

[deleted]

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#75

Post by mlrtime »

coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

Not 100% true, if it's digital you always have your Credit Card company. This is many times easier dealing with Apple or anyone else.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#76

Post by macguillicuddy »

coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

Is this not what the credit card system (with chargebacks and liability shift) is supposed to counter more generally? Lots of these arguments could equally be applied to a shopping mall but we don't require all stores within a mall to use the same merchant services provider.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#77

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

arghwhat wrote: post #64
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I'd personally never go somewhere else to pay for your subscription or content. Maybe if you were a big time player that didn't have an appealing alternative, like Netflix. But for the average app, like Planta or Breethe, I'm just switching to an app that has an in app purchase if yours doesn't. Semi-related, but I also always pick an app that has family sharing of subscription over one that doesn't too (Hea…

> I'd personally never go somewhere else to pay for your subscription or content. When "going elsewhere" means "getting stuff cheaper", people are likely going to go elsewhere to pay for any subscription even if setup is notably less convenient.

Depends how much cheaper.

If my Shonen Jump subscription goes from $2 to $1.70, I'd rather pay the 30 cents than have to click and type for 2 minutes, and then have to solve a mystery to cancel it later.

If my ChatGPT Pro (hypothetical, I don't pay for that) went from $200 to $170, maybe worth it.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#78

Post by HDThoreaun »

nailer wrote: post #51

Why does it have to be a link to a website? Why can’t the app just let me pay, potentially not using Apple Pay?

because thats what the judge said. She ruled that rules banning in app purchases that dont use apple pay is allowed but the anti steering stuff is not.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#79

Post by troupo »

nozzlegear wrote: post #55
maxehmookau wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure EU apps can link elsewhere for payment, but they have to show a warning message first saying that the payment is outside of Apple's jurisdiction and you can't get a refund from apple, etc.

Am I crazy or was this not already possible in the US? When I tried to sign up for Disney Plus to watch the new season of Andor, Disney told me I had to complete the signup outside of the app. Then I got a big warning from Apple saying I was no longer transacting with Apple and wouldn't be able to cancel the subscription or get refunds via the App Store if I continued. Am I misunderstanding what this trial was about?…

1. Yes it's already a thing

2. The US court found that Apple's implementation/requirement is bullshit and ordered it to stop. Apple complied, in the US only

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#80

Post by haukilup »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #56
dartharva wrote: post #5

In the same article: 3.1.1 In-App Purchase: If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not use their own mechanisms to unlock content or functionality, such as license keys, augmented reality markers, QR codes, cryptocurrencies and cr…

> Oof, I don't envy app developers who have to tolerate this bullshit You're confusing developers with publishers. Developers love this shit, one simple API that's built in to the OS and you can support payments worldwide instead of having to integrate with dozens of payment providers all with their own quirky APIs. Now for publishers, who want to maximise their profit margins and who don't have to actually write the…

Hard disagree. Developers are often forced to integrate with both IAP and backend workarounds, which creates more effort and edge cases.

Maybe you meant to specify a specific subset of iOS-only developers?

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