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Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

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Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#71

Post by ty6853 »

kortilla wrote: post #70
ty6853 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Wikipedia and various telecom bids / contracts I found listed it as ' Starlink Services, LLC'. Which is owned by SpaceX, but it appears to be a separate company. The entity I found in an Oregon bid was registration #4503816 in Deleware.

It is not a separate company in any meaningful sense. The job listings for Starlink all clearly say you are working for spacex and you are granted RSUs in spacex. “Starlink services” was probably legal prep in case they ever wanted to sell it off if it flopped.

Even filings like this one appear to purjure them then, as they claim the owner of the business at starlink.com is Starlink Services LLC [0]. The FCC petition as a telecom carrier appears to be for Starlink Services LLC [1]. This is in addition to various state bids for service I found to be for the company 'Starlink Services LLC.'

The body of the evidence as far as I can tell suggests Starlink is a separate company even if employees that produce much of its products work for a different company.

[0] https://apiproxy.utc.wa.gov/cases/GetDocument?docID=10&year=...

[1] https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/1020316268311/1

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#72

Post by dotancohen »

timewizard wrote: post #47
dotancohen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What second stage are you thinking of putting on top of it? Or, no less likely, what first stage are you thinking of putting under it?

You've got a detachable large payload up there right now that gets halfway to LEO. Presumably you've got a few options. Here's a possible (and apparently simulated) option: https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/51480/is-new-shepa...

You are suggesting that they should design a brand new upper stage to get the thing to put 50 kg into orbit, as an alternative launch platform for their 600 kg satellite? Instead of investing that engineering effort into finishing their New Glenn rocket which delivers 40,000 - 100,000 kg at a time to LEO?

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#73

Post by po26511 »

pseudocomposer wrote: post #49
ty6853 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hilarious hearing family/friends who I have invited to remote areas shit-talk Starlink while using it, because we have no great other choice. Personally I will buy internet from Satan himself if it works and for the right price.

Are you saying this includes the price of not being allowed to criticize the CEO?

After trying Starlink on a plane over the Pacific, I would say yes it is worth that price if it were indeed the condition. In practice, it seems to still be quite easy to criticize even while using it.

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#74

Post by lupusreal »

HideousKojima wrote: post #63
lupusreal wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to launch fast with as many launchers as they can, due to their looming FCC deadline. The more they launch, the better their odds for getting an extension to their deadline as more launches demonstrates their seriousness. They're even going to launch on Falcon 9 (albeit after a shareholder lawsuit..)

Did shareholders not want them launching on a Falcon 9 because it was helping a competitor, or did they actively want them to use the F9 because it's the most affordable option but Bezos (or other higher ups) didn't want to support a competitor?

The latter. SpaceX isn't an Amazon competitor if Amazon doesn't have their constellation in the first place, and the loss of a handful of launch contracts from Amazon isn't going to slow SpaceX down (while on the other hand, it would slow Amazon down considerably.)

Bezos didn't want to launch with SpaceX because SpaceX is a Blue Origin competitor. Shareholders sued over this, saying that Amazon was putting Bezos' personal interests before Amazon's own.

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#75

Post by esseph »

kortilla wrote: post #68
esseph wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe 15 years ago, but not for at least 10 years, and definitely 5 in most markets. I'd take fiber -> Taara -> Tarana 3.65 CBRS any day of the week over any LEO. Way faster, way lower latency, and way lower total cost to deploy. Also scales massively better.

>Tarana 3.65 CBRS any day of the week over any LEO. Way faster, way lower latency To what? Starlink is getting you to a major exchange in two direct shots. When I was testing it in North Dakota I was getting lower latency to Google and Cloudflare through Starlink than I was through local fiber providers (likely due to their long circuitous route to Minneapolis).

Satellite can't handle the density required for one, but yes, network path is huge.

Same reason a lot of HFT uses microwave vs fiber paths - fiber paths are following the ROW, the microwave paths are the physically shorter paths.

LEO is a niche technology, but not and shouldn't be the default for tons of reasons.

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#76

Post by bergie »

tw04 wrote: post #36
breadwinner wrote: post #17

The world needs an alternative to Starlink yesterday. If you criticize Musk on X, the self-proclaimed “free speech absolutist” will reduce distribution of your posts [1]. We don't want someone like that owning critical internet infrastructure. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/23/business/elon...

The problem is there’s no indication Bezos will be any better. He was more than happy to bend the knee to Trump. What we really need is the European Union to fund a global competitor.

Oneweb is already live. I have no idea of the performance, and pricing details are hazy. It is a shame they decided to go the legacy B2B route.

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#77

Post by kortilla »

ty6853 wrote: post #71
kortilla wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a separate company in any meaningful sense. The job listings for Starlink all clearly say you are working for spacex and you are granted RSUs in spacex. “Starlink services” was probably legal prep in case they ever wanted to sell it off if it flopped.

Even filings like this one appear to purjure them then, as they claim the owner of the business at starlink.com is Starlink Services LLC [0]. The FCC petition as a telecom carrier appears to be for Starlink Services LLC [1]. This is in addition to various state bids for service I found to be for the company 'Starlink Services LLC.' The body of the evidence as far as I can tell suggests Starlink is a separate company…

Thats not perjury. Having subsidiaries that hold assets is quite common. But those subsidiaries don’t have any employees or normal corporate structure. That’s why I’m saying Starlink Services isn’t a “company”.
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