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Migrating away from Rust

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Re: Migrating away from Rust

#71

Post by CharlieDigital »

bob1029 wrote: post #41
byearthithatius wrote: post #3

Love to have this comparison analysis. Huge LOC difference between Rust and C# (64k -> 17k!!!) though I am sure that is mostly access to additional external libraries that did things they wrote by hand in Rust.

> I am sure that is mostly access to additional external libraries that did things they wrote by hand in Rust This is the biggest reason I push for C#/.NET in "serious business" where concerns like auditing and compliance are non-negotiable aspects of the software engineering process. Virtually all of the batteries are included already. For example, which 3rd party vendors we use to build products is something that c…

Hugely underrated aspect of .NET. If a CVE surfaces, there's a team a Microsoft that owns the code and is going to patch and ship a fix.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#72

Post by dralley »

akkad33 wrote: post #62
nu11ptr wrote: post #6

I did the same for my project and moved to Go from Rust. My iteration is much faster, but the code a bit more brittle, esp. for concurrency. Tests have become more important. Still, given the nature of what my project is (APIs and basic financial stuff), I think it was the right choice. I still plan to write about 5% of the project in Rust and call it from Go, if required, as there is a piece of code that simply cann…

Is calling Rust from Go fast? Last time I checked the interface between C and Go is very slow

Rust is no different from C in that respect.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#73

Post by __loam »

lynndotpy wrote: post #23

I love Rust, but this lines up with my experience roughly. Especially the rapid iteration. Tried things out with Bevy, but I went back to Godot. There are so many QoL things which would make Rust better for gamedev without revamping the language. Just a mode to automatically coerce between numeric types would make Rust so much more ergonomic for gamedev. But that's a really hard sell (and might be harder to implement…

I used to hate the language but statically typed GDscript feels like the perfect weight for indie development

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#74

Post by WinstonSmith84 »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #16

Rust is not good for video game gameplay logic. The ownership model of Rust can not represent the vast majority of allocations. I love Rust. It’s not for shipping video games. No Tiny Glade doesn’t count. Edit: don’t know why you’re downvoting. I love Rust. I use it at my job and look for ways to use it more. I’ve also shipped a lot of games. And if you look at Steam there are simply zero Rust made games in the top 2…

The headline is a bit sensational here and shall have been rather called "Migrating away from Bevy" .. That's not (really) comparing C# to Rust (and Luna but that one is missing), but rather comparing game engine where the language is secondary. Obviously Unity is the leader here (with Unreal) - despite all its flaws.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#75

Post by pclmulqdq »

littlestymaar wrote: post #57
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t think Rust is a good match for game dev. Both because of the borrow checker which requires a lot of handles instead of pointers and because compile times are just not great. But outside of games the situation looks very different. “Almost everything” is just not at all accurate. There are tons of very stable and productive ecosystems in Rust.

Borrow checker is mostly a strawman for this discussion, the post is about using Bevy as an engine and Bevy uses an ECS than manages the lifetime of objects for you automatically. You will never have an issue with the borrow checker when using Bevy, not even once.

Everything in every ECS system is done with handles, but the parent comment is correct that many games use hairballs of pointers all over the place (and they are handles with ECS). There is never a borrow checker issue with handles since they divorce the concept of a pointer from the concept of ownership.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#76

Post by cube2222 »

That's an excellent article - it's great when people share not only their victories, but mistakes, and what they learned from them.

That said regarding both rapid gameplay mechanic iteration and modding - would that not generally be solved via a scripting language on top of the core engine? Or is Rust + Bevy not supposed to be engine-level development, and actually supposed to solve the gameplay development use-case too? This is very much not my area of expertise, I'm just genuinely curious.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#78

Post by Ygg2 »

nh2 wrote: post #13
byearthithatius wrote: post #3

Love to have this comparison analysis. Huge LOC difference between Rust and C# (64k -> 17k!!!) though I am sure that is mostly access to additional external libraries that did things they wrote by hand in Rust.

The article says it's 64k -> 17k.

That's not unexpected they went from Bevy which is more of a game framework, than a proper GUI engine.

I mean, you could also write how we went from C# code 1mil code of our mostly custom engine to 10k in Unreal C++.

Re: Migrating away from Rust

#79

Post by ninjis »

The "Learning" point drives home a concern my brother-in-law and I were talking about recently. As LLMs become more entrenched as a tool, they may inevitably become the crutch that actually holds back innovation. Individuals and teams may be hesitant to explore or adopt bleeding edge technologies specifically because LLMs don't know about them or don't know enough about them yet.
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