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Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

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Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#71

Post by scarface_74 »

shermantanktop wrote: post #28
tptacek wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. They are demanded of you everywhere.

And European tourists are notorious for not tipping, because they have not taken the time to understand our bizarre customs which we don’t even like. Combine that with the fact that tourists everywhere are more difficult and time-consuming to deal with and it’s a recipe for resentment. Just last week I saw a group of Spanish visitors to NYC create a confusing maelstrom of orders at a coffee shop and then override the…

I frequent a bar in a tourist area with many international tourists. They finally just by default added an 18% service charge and a line for an additional tip.

The servers and bartenders are always very explicit about the tip being included.

This feels much more fair to me.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#72

Post by stevenwoo »

vldmrs wrote: post #14

As a European, I can safely say that tipping in American restaurants is one of the most unusual things I remember about America. The amount of tips is huge and they are demanded of you everywhere

It is such a relief to go out to eat in Europe versus the USA where you have to negotiate a fair wage for the service employees at what seems like every food service business at the register. I prefer the solution other countries have where the price already includes a fair wage, I don't want to have to think about it with every meal or snack.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#73

Post by scarface_74 »

tossandthrow wrote: post #36
tptacek wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the prices would also be commensurately higher.

Thisnis one of these counter arguments you often hear in favor of low wages in general. And it is a horrendous argument. You are literally actively arguing for greater inequality. If a company can not cover their costs with their revenue, then they need to cease to exists. And ofcause they need to pay fair market wages.

[flagged]

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#74

Post by tptacek »

xoa wrote: post #30
tptacek wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the prices would also be commensurately higher.

> but the prices would also be commensurately higher. No, the prices would be more transparent , not higher . You've made clear in other comments ITT that you believe tipping to be mandatory ("If you don't want to tip, don't dine at full-service restaurants in America"), which means you consider prices 15% or more higher then sticker price to already be the rule. Requiring that to be part of the advertised price inst…

I mean, you can not tip. It's contemptible behavior in the US, but you can do it.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#75

Post by TipsForCanoes »

One of the reasons often given for why one must tip in US restaurants is the rampant wage theft in that industry.

In law the restaurant must make up the difference if tips fall short of the minimum wage but, we are told, wage theft is so common that most restaurants simply don't pay it. Some will even fire staff for falling short on tips.

Why are we supposed to just look the other way while we tip to support criminal wage theft?

Fair and honest pricing would remove a huge enabler to this wide spread criminal activity.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#76

Post by Stratoscope »

Stratoscope wrote: post #5

(deleted)

I deleted my parent comment because it stirred up such a contentious debate.

I don't care about the loss of karma, I have plenty to spare.

I do care about encouraging positive discussion, and I am afraid I failed badly here.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#77

Post by ponector »

vldmrs wrote: post #14

As a European, I can safely say that tipping in American restaurants is one of the most unusual things I remember about America. The amount of tips is huge and they are demanded of you everywhere

For me ridiculous is the fact you are tipping only person who brings the plate.

You dining experience is affected more by other people: person who actually prepared the dish and person who cleans the toilet. Their poor work can easily ruin your dinner experience, but tips are expected to the person walking with plates.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#78

Post by n4r9 »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #66
n4r9 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing they mean that without tipping, more of the restaurant's revenue would go towards wages.

Which is likely incorrect. Suppose currently a meal costs 20, and the average tip is 15%, so that the customer pays 23. This means that the restaurant knows that customer is willing to pay 23 for a meal. Now, get rid of tipping. The restaurant will raise prices to 23 per meal. And instead of that 3 ending up in the waiter's pockets it will instead be split between the owner and the waiter. Most likely, the worker's w…

In most states, the minimum wage for tipped workers is significantly less than the minimum wage otherwise: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

If we assume that the restaurant owner pays the minimum possible wage out of the revenue, then the claim is correct.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#79

Post by ponector »

neilv wrote: post #70
edent wrote: post #4

The service in most American restaurants isn't good; it is obsequious. It is disturbing how many Americans don't notice this.

> obsequious You might've hit what bugs me about dining out (in the US). My favorite place for first dates was this particular cafe-restaurant, where a server would come to your table for your order, eventually, but otherwise didn't bother you. For example, they did none of the apparently standard barge-in of your conversation, 10 minutes after you're served, asking how everything is. Also, in restaurants in general,…

>I wish more servers would be more subtle

Why would they change their behavior if you tip anyway?

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#80

Post by jasode »

ponector wrote: post #77
vldmrs wrote: post #14

As a European, I can safely say that tipping in American restaurants is one of the most unusual things I remember about America. The amount of tips is huge and they are demanded of you everywhere

For me ridiculous is the fact you are tipping only person who brings the plate. You dining experience is affected more by other people: person who actually prepared the dish and person who cleans the toilet. Their poor work can easily ruin your dinner experience, but tips are expected to the person walking with plates.

>you are tipping only person who brings the plate. You dining experience is affected more by other people

A lot of restaurants have "tip sharing", "tip out", "tip pool" where the waitstaff share some portion of their tips with the hostess, foodrunners, cooks, etc. So the customer is really tipping all the workers except the managers.

https://www.google.com/search?q=waitstaff+share+tip+share+ti...

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