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The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

happiness.hks.harvard.edu

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Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#71

Post by [deleted] »

nikhizzle wrote: post #60
oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

I have a rough idea of my friend’s schedules, and I call them when I’m driving the kids around, or we text. Staying in constant contact with a few very close friends about my mental health has floated me through my mid-40s. A tip I got from a friend in his 60s was that even when you lose friends, life is great because you constantly have the opportunity to find new ones. I am in a new close friends renaissance in my…

[deleted]

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#72

Post by jvanderbot »

barry-cotter wrote: post #58
prhn wrote: post #35

I'm not sure what caused this, but I think the expectations of modern friendship have become unrealistic. Maybe it's movies and TV, where a "close friend" is more or less a non judgemental therapist that will throw down in a fight for you. What is a close friend? Before we can start asking people if they have any we should probably agree on a definition. If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us hav…

> If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us have close friends. I’m probably bottom quintile for social skills and I have done some extremely unwise things for one of my friends who was there for me when I needed a hand. The Hollywood idea of “close friend” is a great deal nearer to my own life experience than its representation of many other important relationships.

Friendships that started in 20s often include this kind of dynamic. Friendships that started in 30s at least talk the talk. In 40s I can't imagine we would bother. I haven't experienced life beyond that but the trend of "evaluating friendships against the expectations of our 20s" sure seems like a losing proposition.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#73

Post by barry-cotter »

bilsbie wrote: post #5

It’s crazy out there for a 40yo. One thing I’m considering is that maybe it’s ok if friends don’t reciprocate. I think some people just have to be the inviters or relationships fall apart.

Someone’s got to host the salon man. Alternatively someone organises “the gang’s[1]” nights outs and trips.

[1] Overwhelmingly it’s one guy and if they leave the nights out and trips just stop.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#75

Post by lawgimenez »

dazzawazza wrote: post #28

I love heavy metal. So I go to metal pubs. I meet people, we talk and listen to each other. I've been talking to the same people for 30+ years but I meet new people EVERY time I venture out. I may see them again, I may not. Who cares? We lend PHYSICAL copies of albums, video games and books to one another. This increases trust, knowledge and love for one another. We share stories about all sorts of things. We create…

I’m more of a hardcore guy but stopped going to shows when I got out of college and got a job. I’m in my 40s now, well my point is it’s amazing how you are still going to shows.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#76

Post by mikemcquaid »

oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

I have 2 young kids, run a widely used open source project and a startup, eat dinner with my kids 6/7 nights a week and do this. Here’s some ways how:

My best friend comes over once a weekend and we watch the TV that my wife doesn’t want to.

I participate in a sport (powerlifting) where I’ve made friends and there’s room to socialise while exercising.

I chose to move back to my home town and also go to college there.

I go to metal gigs with friends when the kids are asleep.

I’m happily married, my wife is training for a marathon and sees friends too.

We pay for a cleaner.

Don’t know that this is 6.5 hours in person with friends every week but I’d say it’s at least a couple of hours each.

It’s doable, it just might require not doing some stuff you already do and enjoy. There’s a bunch of stuff I did pre-kids that I don’t any more and would like to find time for again one day.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#77

Post by daseiner1 »

tycho-newman wrote: post #70
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Life has a 100 percent fatality rate" So, "no one should ask" a suicidal person to not kill themselves "or force them" not to. It is when people cannot fight for themselves that those of us who can fight have to fight even harder. I am saying this as someone who has attempted suicide twice. You are literally arguing in favor for shrugging your shoulders to things like slavery.

No one should ask a suicidal person not to kill themselves. If you believe in autonomy, every human has the right to decide when and how to end their lives. Slavery denies human autonomy by taking all control away. Even when you think their decision is a bad one, it’s their life and their decision.

Asking isn’t forcing. And people who are suicidal are often in an unhealthy state of mind that doesn’t persist over an extended period of time. And we obviously place limits on autonomy in all sorts of ways.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#78

Post by coffeebeqn »

bilsbie wrote: post #47
phalangion wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think some people just have to be the inviters or relationships fall apart. As annoying as it is, this is definitely true. I've only recently become an inviter, and it's made all the difference. It helps to recognize that not everybody is an inviter/organizer.

Any tips?

Invite people to things. You’re probably overthinking it

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#79

Post by daseiner1 »

zkmon wrote: post #51

Back in the day, more children meant more wealth and prosperity for the family. More friends meant more support, bigger communities were stronger against others. It was need based, as they have a need to support and survive by themselves. The nation concept now drains out the need and viability of communities, families and friendships. It's like a whale swallowing animals. Animals can no longer keep their own structu…

Capital is a destructive force just as much as it is a productive one.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#80

Post by bradlys »

I’ll add in a hot take. I think the entitlement of the more recent generations has a strong cause for this as well. I’m not one to say that millennials or whomever are more entitled than previous ones but when it comes to romantic connection - I definitely believe some are.

We see the rise of online dating apps being the number one way (by a large margin) for urban educated singles to meet their future partners. If you’re in a place like SF or NYC, you can completely forget about meeting your future spouse at some hobby, the gym, or even in a friend group. I think a lot of this has to do with entitlement - a strong belief that a person deserves a match that is unwaveringly perfect/better-than-themselves. This Disney-ification of romance is very strong among certain crowds.

In my view, this has a strong effect on social circles. People won’t introduce anyone anymore. You might have a party and people might end up together but the idea of specifically inviting people or introducing friends to each other for romantic purposes is, practically speaking for yuppie circles, gone. The main reason I’ve seen is that certain people have gotten increasingly hostile to anyone even suggesting a person to them that is less than perfect/godly. To the point where many people are afraid of suggesting anything and therefore will not risk their own reputation and friendship because they really feel they’ll lose their friend if they even suggest a potential romantic connection.

So, anyway, my belief is romance within social circles is quickly dying due to entitlement and this has a strong pusher for people to not put as much effort into them. Once that is established, it carries over into the rest of your life because you didn’t ever prioritize it. Therefore, even if you’re partnered, you have learned to live without.

It’s shocking how few relationships I’ve seen are from social circles. If anyone ever studies how people 25-35, educated, and living in major cities dates… being single will be more common than any non-app method.

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