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United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

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Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#71
post #68
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very interesting phenomenon. 1) A child approached by an adult man = everyone is alerted. 2) A helpless child that should be helped = nobody cares. It seems that in case 1 it's more about getting the bad guy then to help the child. This is all sorts of crazy if there is any truth to it. I'd love to see a study on this.

> more about getting the bad guy then to help the child. Another way to look at it is that the worst outcome of one is the child gets lonely and scared for a small period of time, the worst outcome of the other is they get kidnapped and worse. That said, I'm playing devil's advocate here, not arguing that the above logic should be used by anyone.

> worst outcome of one is the child gets lonely and scared for a small period of time

Actually the outcome could be the exact same thing in both cases.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#72
post #33

This is a problem bigger than United -- which has a lot of problems. This is what you get when you subsidize bad companies that need to fail. United needs to fail so someone better can take over. The moral hazards are ruining the country. I saw it recently with farmers struggling from the drought. Compare this farmer: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7417774n who has acres full of hay that don't do well in the…

I've only been to the US once, and I really wasn't sure how I would find the 'service industries' (waiting, bar staff, shop staff) always asking if I 'had a nice day' etc. I thought I would find it cloying and draining.

In reality I generally felt VERY well taken care of by everyone I met in retail or service industries - EXCEPT for the airlines.

We flew BA, London to LAX, and as ever BA were fine. We then flew Delta to Hawaii, and I couldn't believe how rude, unhelpful and almost angry these people were. I mean coach drivers in the UK are grumpy but these were something else. When my partner requested the gluten free meal she had confirmed with the check-in staff, she was told they didn't have anything and was given a bread roll (!!!) and an apple as a replacement.

Returning we flew United Airlines, and again they were curt, unhelpful, and generally annoyed that we were there on their plane.

I couldn't believe that these airlines could be operating in a country that prides itself so highly on service.

As the parent says, these are companies that need to be built up again from the ground up - subsidizing them is not helping them.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#74
post #71
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more about getting the bad guy then to help the child. Another way to look at it is that the worst outcome of one is the child gets lonely and scared for a small period of time, the worst outcome of the other is they get kidnapped and worse. That said, I'm playing devil's advocate here, not arguing that the above logic should be used by anyone.

> worst outcome of one is the child gets lonely and scared for a small period of time Actually the outcome could be the exact same thing in both cases.

[deleted]

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#75

United is clearly very wrong here and treating their customers poorly. But, and I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion, who sends a 10 year old across the country on a plane alone? I wouldn't send a 10 year on a 30min bus ride alone. I understand United offers a service to make this possible but it seems like a ridiculous thing for a parent to take advantage of. Maybe it's a cultural difference and this is…

I've once witnessed how a friend of mine picked up his unaccompanied daughter from a flight in MSP.

I can assure you that handing over the daughter, who was accompanied by an airline employee at all times was not taken lightly.

They very thoroughly checked his identification and checked it towards a list of the person authorized to pick her up.

Alas, this was in the early 90s.

Unaccompanied children are not that far-out as you seem to imagine and virtually any airline (I can speak for Europe and the US, but that probably also goes for Asian carriers) offers the service.

However, it shouldn't be outsourced to some dodgy outfit, which "forgets to send a representative" to pick her up for connecting flight. No matter. It's United's 100% responsibility and the only comfort is that they pay an extremely high price for this (in terms of publicity).

There is simply no excuse for their despicable actions here.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#76
post #32

I want to know who the the passengers were sitting next to this child were that didn't help her with her transfer. The lack of human decency is a cultural problem as much as an airline problem. What the fuck is wrong with people that don't talk to a child traveling alone and make sure she makes her connection. I blame humanity as much as the airline.

Well, if you're male, you won't be sitting next to any unaccompanied children, much less helping them: - http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/seat-swap-o... - http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/nurse-humiliat... - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3634055/Com... If that's standard policy in the airline industry, then half of the adult population wouldn't be able to help the poor…

And if you did, you would be likely to find yourself in cuffs.

As an investor I looked into United and I believe the issue was that, being staff owned for a long time, there was no effective management and poor performers could not be fired. As a result a culture of not-my-problem arose. Cultures, once established, are hard to shift.

I remember coming in to the US on a 16 hour flight, I was having trouble getting my bag out of the overhead compartment and was treated to an extended harangue by a fat, ugly, unpleasant woman (stewardess) about how stupid all men were. All I needed not to hear after a long trip (with another 8 hours to travel to look forward to). This was in business class. Last time I traveled with United.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#77

United is clearly very wrong here and treating their customers poorly. But, and I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion, who sends a 10 year old across the country on a plane alone? I wouldn't send a 10 year on a 30min bus ride alone. I understand United offers a service to make this possible but it seems like a ridiculous thing for a parent to take advantage of. Maybe it's a cultural difference and this is…

Used to do it via Qantas as a kid. The staff would watch you like a hawk. They even let you hang with the pilot for a bit.

Ahh, the old times of flying.

When I flew from Zurich to Vienna with my sister she knew the purser of the flight.

While she was immediately seated in business class I was asked if I would mind to enjoy the entire flight in the cockpit on a jump seat

(yeah, I know: stupid question :) )

Even though I was in my late 20s it was a kid's dream come true.

Needless to say that this was before 9/11 and that this would be completely impossible nowadays.

Which is a shame.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#78
post #67
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sucks to say this but in the US if you're male, the smart/safe thing to do is not have any contact with an unaccompanied child at all. There is a non-trivial chance that may be misconstrued as something else and you could find yourself in a whole world of trouble. Of course this should not stop someone from bringing a distressed child to the attention of the flight crew and other passengers.

Fuck. That. If you're not willing to take the negligible* risk of the situation being misconstrued to help a lost scared child, you are no better than the United Airlines employees. * Yes, it is negligible. For every scare story you hear, thousands of people interact with minors with absolutely no issues at all.

If it happens to you it is a 100% result.

Just today a man was ordered to move his airline seat away from two young children. Until he proved they were his children.

In another story out today a woman aggressively approached a man and threatened him with arrest for taking his own children to a store.

Another man found a lost child and returned the child to its mother, only to be abused and threatened by the mother.

You see enough of this, eventually you conclude "OK, have it your way".

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#79
post #33

This is a problem bigger than United -- which has a lot of problems. This is what you get when you subsidize bad companies that need to fail. United needs to fail so someone better can take over. The moral hazards are ruining the country. I saw it recently with farmers struggling from the drought. Compare this farmer: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7417774n who has acres full of hay that don't do well in the…

Ryanair isn't subsidized. It's a bad airline that doesn't need to fail because it makes money. It's one of the airlines in Europe with the worst customer service track record. The same is true for lots of other compenies with terrible customer service.

On the other hand, there are many state-owned or subsidized airlines that have very good customer service.

So whether or not United needs to fail, I think the problem runs far deeper than subsidies.

Re: United Airlines Lost My Friend's 10 Year Old Daughter And Didn't Care

#80
I don't think this blog post's headline is quite right.

"Losing a child" is putting a child on BOS-EWR instead of BOS-CLE and not noticing the problem until the child's family in Cleveland calls the parents and the parents call Newark, http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2009....

It sounds like what happened here was "causing a child to miss a connection" (and also separately "delaying the delivery of a child's luggage"). This is of course a very bad thing.

Missing the handoff of an UM from the aircraft to their connecting gate is the same kind of service delivery failure that routinely happens to pax with disabilities who, when the third-party wheelchair vendor fails to show up, occasionally may be stuck at a gate waiting for someone for an hour. It's a really bad way for a third-party vendor to fail.

The unaccompanied minor fee is supposed to cover a really, really good white-glove service, so it's really sad to see this break down. The service is supposed to include a gate pass so you can accompany your minor to the gate; a complimentary onboard meal (food-for-purchase these days); careful handoff of the pax by flight crew to the ground staff who are supposed to be waiting to escort them to their connecting gate; and in the rare event of an overnight delay, guaranteed overnight accommodations with airline staff staying with the minor at the hotel. (This last perk is so expensive to the airlines that in the event of irregular operations that require a rebooking, UMs typically get top priority for rebooking, ahead of all other displaced pax.)

Total bummer to see service delivery fail here.

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