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The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
71–80 of 149 posts
Re: The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
#72Damn some of the comments here are really depressing. I'd formerly thought HN was one of the last bastions of critical thought on internet, but I guess I was wrong judging by some of these comments. Way too much regurgitation of long-since debunked pseudo-scientific nonsense. Atlantis was never real and anyone who thinks it was is a moron. If there were truly some sort of globe-spanning advanced civilization existing…
>I'd formerly thought HN was one of the last bastions of critical thought on internet, but I guess I was wrong judging by some of these comments.
Stay away from any thread about physics, astronomy or anywhere vaccines are mentioned if you value your mental health.
Re: The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We found that the the Great Flood in the book of Genesis existed Can you elaborate what you mean by the "Great Flood"? There's certainly evidence for regional megafloods, but I'm not aware of any professional geologic body that recognizes what most people mean when they say "Great Flood", i.e. a single planet-wide flood around that time period.
"most people mean" implies most people since the King James version was published. Not at all clear that's what author meant; the concept of the world as we now know it didn't exist then. So very reasonable to conclude that the Great Flood in Genesis was meant to describe a regional megaflood, which innundated the "whole world" meaning all of Mesopotamian civilization. And there is archeological evidence of ancient c…
I don't think that's true at all. The narrative is very clear that all humans and land animals that are not on the ark die, and in the Talmud I'm not aware of any debate that all humans died.
Re: The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
#74>If you are like most Americans, chances are, you probably believe that Atlantis or another civilization like it once existed. A survey conducted by Chapman University in October 2014 found that, at that time, roughly 63% of people in the United States agreed or strongly agreed with the statement “ancient, advanced civilizations, such as Atlantis, once existed.” This seems like a misleading question. Based on what we…
Agreed. The semantics of "civilization such as Atlantis once existed" are vastly different from that of "Atlantis once existed". There's definitely a way to read that sentence and think of civilizations like the Mayan, etc.
Especially because, I suspect, in a lot of people's minds, the concept of Atlantis much more closely resembles what the author enumerates as the possible (non-fictitious) sources of inspiration for Plato. That is, I certainly don't picture Atlantis in the way that Plato describes it exactly. So in my mind, I agree with the author's assement of Plato's story and conclude that, yes, a place such as that one did exist. The author concedes as much, too, and doesn't realize it.
Re: The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
#75I highly recommend BBC's In our time Podcast on Plato's Atlantis: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001c6t3 The conclusion is similar to OP: Plato had way too much fun making up the story. Originally it was meant to be a critique of democracy as practiced by the seafaring populace of Athens. There is also nice reading list provided there.
We do seem to imbue the greek & roman writers with a more serious tone then they might have had.
I was reading some of Ovid's Metamorphosis while waiting for someone else. I turned to a random page and it was an action packed description of Achilles riding his chariot while spears deflect off him and he effortlessly impales opponents. It almost resembled an anime style power fantasy or something. I wonder if Achilles was viewed more like Wolverine or Superman and people didn't really believe that there were immortal warriors blessed by the gods mowing down enemies in battle.
Re: The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
#76Damn some of the comments here are really depressing. I'd formerly thought HN was one of the last bastions of critical thought on internet, but I guess I was wrong judging by some of these comments. Way too much regurgitation of long-since debunked pseudo-scientific nonsense. Atlantis was never real and anyone who thinks it was is a moron. If there were truly some sort of globe-spanning advanced civilization existing…
"If there were truly some sort of globe-spanning advanced civilization existing ~11KYA we'd have found at least one single piece of their material culture by now, but we haven't."
What about Gobekli Tepe?
"Nor have we found any genetic evidence in people or crops that there was any kind of "Empire" connecting parts of Europe or Africa as we find time and time again with real empires that actually existed in prehistory."
Wouldn't Europe have been mostly tundra/ice that long ago?
Also, what about this article (not Europe, but other global implications), do you dispute it specifically?
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9629774/
You seem to be really upset (and frankly insulting) at the prospect of people being curious about the idea that we don't know everything about our history yet. There is a very wide gap between believing a theory is true or being certain its not true, and that gap is the humility to accept we aren't sure yet and there is room to be surprised.
Skepticism is healthy, but why be dismissive of peoples' interest to consider or search for new evidence? What exactly is the risk? Isn't it more risky to stop developing the science and pursuing the truth? Is this really about scientific rigor, or do you have some reason to want there not to have been more developed civilizations pre-younger dryas than we previously thought existed? What's the harm to you in other people asking these questions and going out and trying to answer them?
Re: The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
#77That does not make the existence of Atlantis a mere fiction. With the end of the Ice Age and its consequences, plenty of civilizations may have disappeared in deep waters. The Sumerians themselves claimed they received their knowledge from a man who visited them by the sea (fish-man like creature) on the aftermath of the great flood which may have buried plenty of Atlantis-like civilizations which could be the missin…
Whats even more surprising to me is that people still believe the great flood was nothing but a myth.
Re: The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
People used to think Troy was fictional. People (myself included) think Atlantis is fictional. The difference is: Troy was much closer to us in time, and it was found.
People didn't use to think Troy was fictional, where did you get that idea? Edit: to be clear there is no evidence that the Trojan war happened as described, but that doesn't mean Troy is a fiction anymore then Sparta or Ithaca are.
Many European scholars did consider Troy fictional. For example, Jacob Bryant's "A Dissertation concerning the War of Troy" (1796) explicitly argued that Troy never existed as a real city and that the Trojan War was purely mythological. He thought Homer's place names derived from Egyptian and Phoenician religious vocabulary, so the entire Trojan War narrative should be interpreted as imported solar allegory without any historical basis.
Re: The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
#79>If you are like most Americans, chances are, you probably believe that Atlantis or another civilization like it once existed. A survey conducted by Chapman University in October 2014 found that, at that time, roughly 63% of people in the United States agreed or strongly agreed with the statement “ancient, advanced civilizations, such as Atlantis, once existed.” This seems like a misleading question. Based on what we…
> This seems like a misleading question. Based on what we know about the Maya civilization, the Inca Empire, Ancient China, or Ancient Egypt, I would probably agree that ancient, advanced civilizations roughly similar to how we imagine Atlantis once existed,
There is also the question of what is meant by Atlantis. While I have certainly encountered versions of the story that the author was referring to, I read too many "mysteries" books as a kid and the myth pops up in contemporary fiction, I typically hear of the more plausible versions of the story that can be backed up by archaeological evidence. Granted, it can also be a complete fiction.
Re: The Truth about Atlantis (2019)
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that's not the flood in Genesis. Not even close to it, for instance in Genesis the land is flooded and then the waters recede and the land comes back, whereas the Black Sea is still a sea. You're just pointing at a flood and saying it must be the origin of a story of a flood, but there's no basis for it.
And where did Noah Land after the flood? Right. Mount Ararat
Are you saying that the ark left the flooded Black Sea basin, flew through the air, and landed on a mountain many kilometers from the sea? That seems like a stretch to fit a hypothesis.