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Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

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Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#71
post #19

From reading the article I get the impression that the author isn't that familiar with the scientific literature at all. The evidence he presents against the usefulness of cardio for weight loss compares a group of weightlifters against a group of runners who ran only 20km per week and they still lost marginally more weight than the weightlifters! Cardio really should be a minimum of an hour per day, at least 5 days…

> Americans are more into protein and more into weightlifting than any other nation I've ever seen. And while there are a number of muscled-bound guys strutting around, there are a whole lot more fat people buying into the same pop weight-loss ideologies.

How on earth did you generalise from people who control their diet and training to become "muscled-bound" to the rest of population who clearly don't?

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#72
The key obstacle to weight loss is the same as any form of self-improvement: Motivation. Most people know what they need to do in order to lose weight. They just don't do it because its hard to motivate ourselves to do things we're not used to doing. i.e. It's hard to defy our habits. Healthy people don't defy their habits any more than unhealthy people do. They just have healthy habits. So when you're trying to become healthy the goal should not be to "lose 5 pounds this week", but to form healthy habits and break unhealthy ones. This kind of thinking is crucial. You might have enough willpower to defy your habits long enough to achieve your weight-loss goal, but only forming healthy habits will keep the weight from coming right back.

This is possibly why doctors aren't terribly useful. They can tell us when we need to lose weight and perhaps even give us a general idea of what we need to do, but they really aren't trained to focus on habits and motivation. Even if they were, everyone responds differently to ideas and we each need to sift through a lot of possible ideas to find ways of changing our habits that are actually compatible with how we live and think. It's a matter of brute-force. A doctor has maybe 10 minutes to set you on the right path, but you can spend hours upon hours reading reddit looking for things that will work for you.

One point in the linked article that I absolutely disagree with is that cardio is unimportant. To be fair, he only really said it's unimportant for weight-loss. If all you want is to look pretty then perhaps it's not crucial, but it absolutely is important for being healthy. Above I said that forming healthy habits is a way to side-step the need to constantly motivate ourselves, but the truth is that it also takes effort to change our habits! Having the strongest possible motivation helps, and I've found that being healthy so I can do things like play sports and hike is a better motivator than simply looking good.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#73

This is the first time I have seen the reddit fitness stuff. I was big at the beginning of the year. Wasn't even thinking of a diet. Then I read a comment here on hn posted by Aramgutang, on the best books of 2011 thread, where they recommended reading the four hour body. The community behind the four hour body was a huge motivator for me to lose 40 lbs and really it does change the way you think about things. I thin…

You're very welcome. Inspiring someone to become more healthy is probably the most rewarding inspiration there is.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#74
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Carbs" is such a vague word there are complex carbohydrates and simple carbohydrates, a blanket statement calling both "carbs" is generalizing.

Same for fats. This is why nobody should be taking fitness advice from random non-professionals on the internet

Does anyone think there is a place for bad fats in their diet today? I mean, do we really need to be explicit there?

I'll give you carbs, but fats? If you are reading this and it is unclear...do not eat bad fats. Good fats are fine.

So to be explicit on carbs (if someone is unclear): There is actually a place for all carbs. If you are lifting heavy weights, post workout you can eat simple carbs. I personally put dextrose in my shake.

And then, depending on my goals, I'll either eat complex or simple carbs until I go to bed. Like I said, depends on my goals at the time. Same goes for my general advise to others....all depends on their goals and how they react to the carbs.

PS. I'm actually a professional so....

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#75
post #19

From reading the article I get the impression that the author isn't that familiar with the scientific literature at all. The evidence he presents against the usefulness of cardio for weight loss compares a group of weightlifters against a group of runners who ran only 20km per week and they still lost marginally more weight than the weightlifters! Cardio really should be a minimum of an hour per day, at least 5 days…

> Americans are more into protein and more into weightlifting than any other nation I've ever seen. And while there are a number of muscled-bound guys strutting around, there are a whole lot more fat people buying into the same pop weight-loss ideologies. How on earth did you generalise from people who control their diet and training to become "muscled-bound" to the rest of population who clearly don't?

The concept of fitness in the US slants more in that direction. Living in Taiwan, I knew a lot of people interested in controlling their diet but not many who were interesting in building muscle mass. Health magazines weren't full of models showing off muscles, either.

For whatever reason, there is a very American tendency to focus on muscles. Men and recently more and more women on TV are muscular. The trend has been going on for the past 50 years and the effects even show up in toys!

http://www.lhup.edu/tmitchel/wmst/pope.pdf

Edit since I can't reply: Yeah, it's a lot easier to tweet about how manly you are living off of bacon and protein powder than it is to actually hit the gym regularly.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#76
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans are more into protein and more into weightlifting than any other nation I've ever seen. And while there are a number of muscled-bound guys strutting around, there are a whole lot more fat people buying into the same pop weight-loss ideologies. How on earth did you generalise from people who control their diet and training to become "muscled-bound" to the rest of population who clearly don't?

The concept of fitness in the US slants more in that direction. Living in Taiwan, I knew a lot of people interested in controlling their diet but not many who were interesting in building muscle mass. Health magazines weren't full of models showing off muscles, either. For whatever reason, there is a very American tendency to focus on muscles. Men and recently more and more women on TV are muscular. The trend has bee…

OK, sure, there's been a cultural shift towards muscularity as part of the conception of masculinity.

But that doesn't change the observed fact that most people aren't doing the hard yards to attain a muscular physique. Because it doesn't happen by accident.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#77
post #19

From reading the article I get the impression that the author isn't that familiar with the scientific literature at all. The evidence he presents against the usefulness of cardio for weight loss compares a group of weightlifters against a group of runners who ran only 20km per week and they still lost marginally more weight than the weightlifters! Cardio really should be a minimum of an hour per day, at least 5 days…

Disclaimer: Anecdotal evidence. Cardio really should be a minimum of an hour per day, at least 5 days a week if weight control is the goal First of all, who the hell has time to do a minimum of five hours of cardio per week? Some people have families or businesses to run. Getting a runner's high may be great for you, but you in no way need to spend an hour doing just cardio for effective weight loss. My reasoning? Th…

That's not how it works. You get different gains from doing sprinting than from long distance. Your muscle fiber composition, your lactate threshold, your VO2 max and your economy of oxygen use are all maximized at different distances.

For marathon runners, it's the final variable that becomes huge, and you just won't improve that without a solid base of distance running. Even 5k runners, for whom VO2 max and interval work is crucial, benefit greatly from one long run per week (usually around 20km if they're serious).

It might surprise you that there's been a general trend in cross-country at the collegiate level towards slower 90 minute daily runs instead of the faster 60 minute ones so popular a decade or two ago. http://runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=15744

You can lose weight with no cardio at all. However there is a veritable mountain of research that suggests that an hour of cardio per day is good for you. If you can't get that much, some is better than nothing. It doesn't have to be running all the time, either. Playing with your kids or going on hikes will do good for your health even if it doesn't single-handedly take care of your weight problems.

Running just happens to be an exercise that allows a particularly high HR and lactate threshold compared to others such as biking, rowing or hiking.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#78
post #72

The key obstacle to weight loss is the same as any form of self-improvement: Motivation. Most people know what they need to do in order to lose weight. They just don't do it because its hard to motivate ourselves to do things we're not used to doing. i.e. It's hard to defy our habits. Healthy people don't defy their habits any more than unhealthy people do. They just have healthy habits. So when you're trying to beco…

> Motivation. Most people know what they need to do in order to lose weight.

Maybe. But I think the issue is some people, based on bad advice, focus their motivation on eating right and exercise. Many times that split focus leads people to over-emphasize the exercise part, and that often comes at the expense of the food part. They'll probably see some progress on their goals, but they may be slow and not nearly as rewarding as they expected. That can be a huge de-motivator.

Also, as you said, the article didn't say cardio wasn't important, just that it's not necessary (or the best strategy) for weight loss. If you're going to point someone towards a healthy diet or a jogging regimen, the healthy diet is often the way to go.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#79
post #72

The key obstacle to weight loss is the same as any form of self-improvement: Motivation. Most people know what they need to do in order to lose weight. They just don't do it because its hard to motivate ourselves to do things we're not used to doing. i.e. It's hard to defy our habits. Healthy people don't defy their habits any more than unhealthy people do. They just have healthy habits. So when you're trying to beco…

The key obstacle to weight loss is the same as any form of self-improvement: Motivation. Most people know what they need to do in order to lose weight.

I don't disagree with this, but sometimes motivation is more enabled by a society or cultural milieu and sometimes it's less enabled. In our society, the default is towards simple sugars in everything from ubiquitous soda to donuts in the break room to sandwiches to white rice in restaurants to high-fructose corn syrup in damn near everything. The larger the cultural inertia, the harder the change. Ask vegetarians: in the U.S., meat-eating is the assumed default. I've read that, in India, vegetarian food at events, parties, and so forth is basically the norm.

They can tell us when we need to lose weight and perhaps even give us a general idea of what we need to do, but they really aren't trained to focus on habits and motivation

It's actually more pernicious than that. As described by Taubes in Why We Get Fat (http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-About/dp/0307272702?ie=...), the government and doctors have spent the last 40 years convincing everyone that a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet is optimal, and government agencies and many researchers have ignored evidence to the contrary. I don't think this reflects malice on the part of individual doctors, but it does reflect systematic misinformation about what effective nutrition actually is. So doctors haven't only not given "us a general idea of what we need to do," but they've actually told us the opposite, even unwittingly.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#80
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are quite a few things in the above so I won't touch on them all. Though, I must ask...what is your goal? My belief is that nearly everything in how someone eats, worksout and approaches fitness and health should be decided AFTER they understand what their goal is. Nearly all the studies above seem to have no idea what they are actually testing (the goal). Right now I am an amateur powerlifter and bodybuilder.…

>Trying to maximize your years on this earth? Only known way is to calorie restrict. Like extreme calorie restrict. Say, around 1000-1200 cals a day. Hardcore males doing CR for health and longevity, pushing it as far a they can go, average about 1700 - 1900 a day. At 6+ foot and 120 pounds. 5 foot female might hit 1100 or 1200, sure. Keep in mind that's an average though. If you cheat once a week or two weeks you co…

> Hardcore males doing CR for health and longevity, pushing it as far a they can go, average about 1700 - 1900 a day. At 6+ foot and 120 pounds

Picking a calorie calculator at random on the internet seems to suggest otherwise.

http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

I put in 6'0", 120lb male, age 30 and just looking for basal metabolic rate gives 1500cals. Sedentary gives 1850cals.

I've read elsewhere (can't find source) that most CR advocates are recommending AT LEAST 20% reduction in cals to actually qualify as CR, some saying 30%-40% are more appropriate.

Those numbers from above cals are 1200 and 1480. If using 30% reduction they are 1050 and 1295.

There is emerging evidence that while CR is effective, an alternate approach that is less extreme could also be just as effective: intermittent fasting[1]. I believe the IF approach warrants more research, but I'm doing it anyway b/c it also aligns with my current goals for powerlifting and bodybuilding. Hoping the research pans out in the longevity department as it will be a bonus ;)

[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction#Intermitten...

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