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Playing in the Creek

hgreer.com

71–80 of 122 posts

Re: Playing in the Creek

#71

It's a nice article. In a way though it kind of bypasses what I see as the main takeaways. It's not about AI development, it's about something mentioned earlier in the article: "make as much money as I can". The problems that we see with AI have little to do with AI "development", they have to do with AI marketing and promulgation. If the author had gone ahead and dammed the creek with a shovel, or blown off his hand…

> it's about something mentioned earlier in the article: "make as much money as I can".

I think it's a little deeper than that. It's the democratization of capability.

If few people have the tools, the craftsman is extremely valuable. He can make a lot of money without a glut of knowledge or real skill. In general the people don't have the tools and skills to catch up to where he is. He is wealthy with only frontloaded effort.

If everyone has the same tools, the craftsman still has value, because of the knowledge and skillset developed over time. He makes more money because his skills are valuable and remain scarce; he's incentivized to further this skillset to stay above the pack, continue to be in demand, and make more money.

If the tools do the job for you, the craftsman has limited value. He's an artifact. No matter how much he furthers his expertise, most people will just turn the tool on and get good enough product.

We're in between phase 2 and 3 at the moment. We still test for things like algorithm design and ask questions in interviews about the complexity of approaches. A lot of us still haven't moved on to the "ok but now what?" part of the transition.

The value now is less knowing how the automation works and improving our knowledge of the underlying design, but how to use the tools in ways that produce more value than the average Joe. It's a hard transition for people who grew up thinking this was all you needed to get a comfortable or even lucrative life.

I'm past my SDE interview phase of life now and in seeking engineers I'm looking less for people who know how to build a version of the tool and more people who operate in the present, have accepted the change, and want to use what they have access to and add human utility to make the sum of the whole greater than the parts.

To me the best part of building software was the creativity. That part hasn't changed. If anything it's more important than ever.

Ultimately we're building things to be consumed by consumers. That hasn't changed. The creek started flowing in a different direction and your job in this space is not to keep putting rocks where the water used to go, and more accepting that things are different and you have to adapt.

Re: Playing in the Creek

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sorry to hear that. Not our fault, and it won't make your life any better to be bitter about it. It certainly doesn't help you, in the least, to be attacking folks in a public professional forum. You're also not the only one doing charity work. Just sayin'.

[flagged]

Re: Playing in the Creek

#74
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Couldn't this very same argument have been used against any form of mental augmentation, like written language and computers? Or, in an extended interpretation, against any form of physical augmentation, like tool use?

You can argue whatever you want to argue. I make my living with my brain so I do worry about the downsides of removing boredom and mental struggle from my days.

It's almost certainly going to be bad, and almost certainly going to be unavoidable.

I can't spell for shit anymore. Ever since auto correct became omnipresent in pretty much all writing fields, my brain just kinda ditched remembering how to spell words.

buuuttt

Manual labor has been obsolete for at least 100 years now for certain classes of people, and fitness is still an enormous recreational activity people partake in. So even in an AI heavy society, I still strongly suspect there will be "brain games" that people still enjoy and regularly play.

Re: Playing in the Creek

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear that. Not our fault, and it won't make your life any better to be bitter about it. It certainly doesn't help you, in the least, to be attacking folks in a public professional forum. You're also not the only one doing charity work. Just sayin'.

[flagged]

Do you think this style of argumentation is constructive and beneficial for the broader good of society? I can't think of a single person I've met who would respond positively to being labeled a (partial) sociopath after being able to only express a couple of paragraphs of thought.

Re: Playing in the Creek

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It went sour for the same reason that you were "satisfied that I had done enough to secure a home, tools for my hobbies, and had raised three girls — paid for their college"; Money and selfishness. You were looking out for you and your little group. You got yours. Now what?

If you're trying to convince me that I was somehow part of the problem, it's not reaching me. I was as low(ly) as you can get in the "tech industry stack". While I still had some measure of agency as an engineer I added a crayon color picker to MacOS, added most of the PDF features people like in MacOS Preview. That was as much "driving the ship" as I was allowed — until I wasn't even allowed that. I could have skipp…

I don't think they're blaming you per se, they're saying the reason you didnt enjoy it is because you did it for money.

Re: Playing in the Creek

#77
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Or is it more similar to what people do when they see a new word and reach for their dictionary?

> Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Couldn't this very same argument have been used against any form of mental augmentation, like written language and computers? Or, in an extended interpretation, against any form of physical augmentation, like tool use?

In fact it has been, dating all the way back to Phaedrus.

> If men learn [writing], it will implant forgetfulness in their souls. They will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks.

Re: Playing in the Creek

#78

It's a nice article. In a way though it kind of bypasses what I see as the main takeaways. It's not about AI development, it's about something mentioned earlier in the article: "make as much money as I can". The problems that we see with AI have little to do with AI "development", they have to do with AI marketing and promulgation. If the author had gone ahead and dammed the creek with a shovel, or blown off his hand…

This is such a well-written response. There's something intentionally soothing about this post that slowly turns into a jarring form of self-congratulation as it goes along. Congratulations for knowing there's a limit to wrecking your parents' property. Congratulations for being able to appreciate the sand on the beach, in some no doubt instagrammable moment of existential simplicity. Congratulations for being so sma…

> But there's something so... so fucking nakedly exhibitionist and narcissistic about these kinds of posts.

You've precisely defined why nobody takes LessWrong seriously.

Re: Playing in the Creek

#79
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Couldn't this very same argument have been used against any form of mental augmentation, like written language and computers? Or, in an extended interpretation, against any form of physical augmentation, like tool use?

You can argue whatever you want to argue. I make my living with my brain so I do worry about the downsides of removing boredom and mental struggle from my days.

Me too.

There is another side to this, which is maybe we don’t need to know a lot of things.

It was true with search engines already, but maybe truer with LLMs. That thing you’re querying probably doesn’t actually matter. It’s neurotic digging and searching for an object you will never use or benefit from. The urge to seek is strong but you won’t find the thing you’re searching for this way.

You might learn more by just going for a walk.

Re: Playing in the Creek

#80
The story of playing at damming the creek or on the sand at the seaside is wholesome and brought a smile to my face. Cracking the "puzzle" is almost the bad ending of the game, if you don't get any fun at playing it anymore.

People should spend more of their time doing things because they're fun, not because they want to get better at it.

Maybe the apocalypse will happen in our lifetime, maybe not. I intend to have fun as much as I can in my life either way.

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