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How University Students Use Claude

anthropic.com

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Re: How University Students Use Claude

#71

Post by Retric »

bko wrote: post #35
dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

When modern search became more available, a lot of people said there's no point of rote memorization as you can just do a Google search. That's more or less accepted today. Whenever we have a new technology there's a response "why do I need to learn X if I can always do Y", and more or less, it has proven true, although not immediately. For instance, I'm not too concerned about my child's ability to write very legibl…

The scope of what’s useful to know changes with tools, but having a bullshit detector requires actually knowing some things and being able to reason about the basics.

It’s not that LLM’s are particularly different it’s that people are less able to determine when they are messing up. A search engine fails and you notice, an LLM fails and your boss, customer, ect notices.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#72

Post by bko »

kibwen wrote: post #57
bko wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When modern search became more available, a lot of people said there's no point of rote memorization as you can just do a Google search. That's more or less accepted today. Whenever we have a new technology there's a response "why do I need to learn X if I can always do Y", and more or less, it has proven true, although not immediately. For instance, I'm not too concerned about my child's ability to write very legibl…

The irreducible answer to "why should I" is that it makes you ever-more-increasingly reliant on a teetering tower of fragile and interdependent supply chains furnished by for-profit companies who are all too eager to rake you over the coals to fulfill basic cognitive functions. Like, Socrates may have been against writing because he thought it made your memory weak, but at least I, an individual, am perfectly capable…

I don't know, most of the things I'm reliant on, from my phone, ISP, automobile, etc are built on fragile interdependent supply chains provided by for-profit companies. If you're really worried about this, you should learn survival skills not the academic topics I'm talking about.

So if you're not bothering to learn how to farm, dress some wild game, etc, chances are this argument won't be convincing for "why should I learn calculus"

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#74

Post by tux1968 »

Vvector wrote: post #55
noitpmeder wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insane take. The issue is that, when presented with a situation that requires writing legibly, spelling well, or reading a map, WITHOUT their AI assistants, they will fall apart. The AI becomes their brain, such that they cannot function without it. I'd never want to work with someone who is this reliant on technology.

Do you have the skills and knowledge to survive like a pioneer from 200 years ago? Technology is rapidly changing humanity. Maybe for the worse.

Indeed. More people need to grow their own vegetables. AI may undermine our ability for high level abstract thought, but industrial agriculture already represents an existential threat, should it be interrupted for any reason.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#75

Post by andai »

dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

I spent much of the past year at public libraries, and I heard the word ChatGPT approximately once per minute, in surround sound. Always from young people, and usually in a hushed tone...

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#76

Post by kibwen »

Vvector wrote: post #55
noitpmeder wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insane take. The issue is that, when presented with a situation that requires writing legibly, spelling well, or reading a map, WITHOUT their AI assistants, they will fall apart. The AI becomes their brain, such that they cannot function without it. I'd never want to work with someone who is this reliant on technology.

Do you have the skills and knowledge to survive like a pioneer from 200 years ago? Technology is rapidly changing humanity. Maybe for the worse.

Knowledge itself is the least concern here. Human society is extremely good at transmitting information. More difficult to transmit are things like critical thinking and problem-solving ability. Developing meta-cognitive processes like the latter are the real utility of education.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#77

Post by ryandrake »

hackyhacky wrote: post #70
kibwen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irreducible answer to "why should I" is that it makes you ever-more-increasingly reliant on a teetering tower of fragile and interdependent supply chains furnished by for-profit companies who are all too eager to rake you over the coals to fulfill basic cognitive functions. Like, Socrates may have been against writing because he thought it made your memory weak, but at least I, an individual, am perfectly capable…

> The irreducible answer to "why should I" is that it makes you ever-more-increasingly reliant on a teetering tower of fragile and interdependent supply chains furnished by for-profit companies who are all too eager to rake you over the coals to fulfill basic cognitive functions. Yes, but that horse has long ago left the barn. I don't know how to grow crops, build a house, tend livestock, make clothes, weld metal, bu…

This reply brings to mind the well-known Heinlein quote:

    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#78

Post by Planktonne »

nonethewiser wrote: post #43
vunderba wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been calling this out since the rise of ChatGPT: "The real danger lies in their seductive nature - over how tempting it becomes to immediately reach for the LLM to provide an answer, rather than taking a few moments to quietly ponder the problem on your own. By reaching for it to solve any problem at nearly an instinctual level you are completely failing to cultivate an intrinsically valuable skill - that of cri…

Somewhat agree. I agree in principal - the process of problem solving is the important part. However I think LLMs make you do more of this because of what you can offload to the LLM. You can offload the simpler things. But for the complex questions that cut across multiple domains and have a lot of ambiguity? You're still going to have to sit down and think about it. Maybe once you've broken it into sufficiently smal…

You can offload the simpler things, but struggling with the simpler things is how you build the skills to handle the more complex ones that you can't hand off.

If the simpler thing in question is a task you've already mastered, then you're not losing much by asking an LLM to help you with it. If it's not trivial to you though, then you're missing an opportunity to learn.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#79

Post by andai »

bko wrote: post #35
dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

When modern search became more available, a lot of people said there's no point of rote memorization as you can just do a Google search. That's more or less accepted today. Whenever we have a new technology there's a response "why do I need to learn X if I can always do Y", and more or less, it has proven true, although not immediately. For instance, I'm not too concerned about my child's ability to write very legibl…

>Why should I learn to do X if I can just ask an LLM and it will do it better than me

This may eventually apply to all human labor.

I was thinking, even if they pass laws to mandate companies employ a certain fraction of human workers... it'll be like it already is now: they just let AI do most of the work anyway!

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#80

Post by AlexandrB »

umpalumpaaa wrote: post #27
stv_123 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the concept of "productive struggle" is important to the education process and having a way to short circuit it seems like it leads to worse learning outcomes.

I am not sure all humans work the same way though. Some get very very nervous when they begin to struggle. So nervous that they just stop functioning. I felt that during my time in university. I absolutely loved reading and working through dense math text books but the moment there was a time constraint the struggle turned into chaos.

> Some get very very nervous when they begin to struggle. So nervous that they just stop functioning.

I sympathize, but it's impossible to remove all struggle from life. It's better in the long run to work through this than try to avoid it.

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