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Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

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Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#71

This is all very interesting, but is complete fiction for most readers. 99% of job seekers aren’t going to receive competing offers from multiple companies conveniently at the same time.

And even if you receive two or more offers at once, many organizations don't bother negotiating. One time I received two offers at once, and neither organization was willing to change anything substantive about their offers.

In this case, one organization had an onerous IP policy and that other did not. I asked for some carve-outs, and the first organization came back with a single line added to the IP policy that did not change anything meaningful. I told them that I could not accept that offer as written and wanted more changes, but they refused further negotiation and told me to take it or leave it. I waited a few days, rejected their offer, and accepted the other offer.

(I think that they were willing to add the single meaningless line to make it appear they were willing to change things without actually changing anything substantive.)

The morale of my story is that you may not be able to negotiate a better offer, but at least you have a choice when you have multiple offers.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#72
Having worked in investment banking (a job where your only true value add is your network and ability to negotiate) I would like to say two things:

1. I second everything in the article.

2. You would be surprised to learn how important rule #7 is. We would build entire presentations that we would provide to the other side of the table in negotiations just to reinforce our points. Basically putting ourselves in the position of “hey we’re on your side, but look at the numbers; our hands are tied!”. Having a non-confrontational attitude and providing specific reasons for why you are asking for things makes a big difference in negotiations.

(Definitely don’t need to be building presentations for potential employers though… unless it’s for contracts large enough that you’d need a lawyer and wouldn’t need OP’s advice anyways!)

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#73
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re good at running your interview process you will have 3-4 at a time. That’s usually where I’m at, I’m interviewing with 12 and get it necked down to 3 or 4 getting to the offer point. I try to stretch out the fast movers and speed up the slow ones but just be honest with recruiters. You’re in the pipeline with other companies and you’re not ready to respond yet. Edit: I saw other comments. I am both “old” an…

> I worked really hard at the practice of interviewing What did you do?

Not the OP but I tell everyone on the market that one of the highest ROI things you can do is just go through your own past career history with a fine toothed comb and simply remember all the different things you did and be able to tell the story of each concisely and informatively (if possible, recall actual numbers and quantifiable impacts etc.).

When in an interview, when you're asked a question about your past experiences, the larger the library you have to draw on, the more likely you are to find an example that's relevant and persuasive. Even questions of the form "How would you deal with [hypothetical scenario]", I encourage applicants, if possible, to answer it in the form of "Oh yeah, that's interesting, we had to deal with a very similar case at [one of my previous jobs], here was my approach towards it".

After each interview, do a "l'esprit de l'escalier" retro, write down all the questions asked, what your answer was at the time and what you would have ideally answered now given the fullness of time to think about it. If there's a significant delta, that's a sign to go back and prepare more until your "real time" performance approaches your retroactive performance.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#74

This is all very interesting, but is complete fiction for most readers. 99% of job seekers aren’t going to receive competing offers from multiple companies conveniently at the same time.

> 99%…aren’t going to receive competing offers

Then it’s not for them. You don’t see me complaining about advice for plumbers bc I’m not a plumber. The advice is for the 1%. Anecdotally I know numerous people, including myself, who have been in this situation.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#75
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I've read a lot of negotiation books and that's the one that explains all the other ones. Everything else (including this article) is a specific case of the models described in that book.

I bounced on that book pretty quickly, so maybe I need to give it another attempt. It started off so generic and, "Here are my expert qualifications and anecdotes".

Yeah I rolled my eyes at that, but publishers basically require the front 10% of non-fiction be like that. It's for the people walking through book stores and picking up books to browse.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#76
This is quality advice. It approaches the process with the other party in mind.

I’ve put a few of these into practice and they work quite well.

Once you’ve made it to the offer stage most companies want to close. You have more ability to push back on offers than you think.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#77
When negotiating with a startup, especially a founder, always ask for two offers: one with a higher equity offer and another with a higher cash offer.

This allows the other party to still feel in control of the negotiation process but tells you two important pieces of information: the first is what the “top” number is for both equity and cash. The second is how much they really are valuing the equity portion.

Depending on the response, you can argue for both higher cash or equity, or both. I often ask what is preventing from giving both higher cash and higher equity? Often times I’ve gotten both.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#78
post #41
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is addressed in the article: > Turns out, it doesn’t matter that much where your first offer is from, or even how much they’re offering you. Just having an offer in hand will get the engine running. > If you’re already in the pipeline with other companies (which you should be if you’re doing it right), you should proactively reach out and let them know that you’ve just received an offer. Try to build a sense of…

Me too. It was utterly bizarre. Spent 6 month looking for a job, with I don’t know how many failed interviews, then I got one offer for a 6 month contract, and suddenly the next two companies I interviewed with were falling over themselves to give me a permanent one. I just do not see how that works. There’s no logical reason for it.

Why would someone not then just tell every recruiter/company they are interviewing with that they already have offers are are in the pipeline at other companies even if they don't.

We've heard nowadays how hard it is to even get to the interview for many companies so theres probably plenty of candidates who do not have many other offers prepared or even close to prepared.

Another issue is timing. Theres been times when I've started the interview process with two companies but one is on a much shorter timeline than the other so now I have an offer for one whereas I am still waiting on an interview that isn't for even a couple weeks for another, if not longer.

Not gonna lie, last time I went through the interview process I just told them I have other offers already even when I didn't. It worked in my favor I believe but feels like to get the best outcome you just have to be okay with basically lying out your ass - and that goes both ways, as the employer and the employee since it seems like even the companies feel fine with dragging their asses on concrete unless you have other stuff going on.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#79
For startups, I'm pretty upfront about the fact that I don't negotiate but if they go under my activation price I will simply decline. It's a one and done deal and we can revisit months later. The range of cost I'll accept is quite large (though this part I don't communicate). I don't mind working for $200k annualized on things I really enjoy and I don't mind working on things I enjoy less for $800k annualized and so on. I have an internal sliding scale and I'm quite clear that I don't really need to work on any specific thing. Then I just take the gig if it meets my internal criteria.

In my experience, it isn't about making a $20k more now or whatever. It's about making a million more because you're invested in something worthwhile etc. etc.

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