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this seems unrelated to the post
He’s saying that her war efforts led to the British winning, but also led to the loss of their empire, culture, and race.
Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
71–80 of 119 posts
Re: Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's insane how the largest conflict in human history is just now passing out of living memory. It's also insane how 1 in 4 Americans under 40 believe the holocaust is a fabrication or exaggeration.
> It's insane how the largest conflict in human history is just now passing out of living memory. Don’t worry, there will be another one along any minute now.
The American Revolution was 240 years ago. The US Civil War was 160 years ago. The Second World War was 80 years ago...
Re: Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
#73It hurts to see the generation that won WWII pass, not the least bit because we seem to have forgotten the lessons from their struggle.
Indeed, it is very easy to forget the struggle when one has sacrificed nothing to achieve it. At least WWII, unlike those preceding it, has a vast well of literature to draw those lessons from. The trouble, however, is not just getting younger people to sit, read and analyze it, but also to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, with all the propaganda and misinformation to be had these days about the events…
Ha, maybe I should read (in translation) some Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. I recognised his name having never seen it in print but only heard it repeatedly in that episode of Game Changer where it's a loop and the same questions are asked repeatedly.
Re: Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, it is very easy to forget the struggle when one has sacrificed nothing to achieve it. At least WWII, unlike those preceding it, has a vast well of literature to draw those lessons from. The trouble, however, is not just getting younger people to sit, read and analyze it, but also to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, with all the propaganda and misinformation to be had these days about the events…
> all the propaganda and misinformation to be had these days about the events of WWII, the Holocaust, Hiroshima/Nagasaki and so many other things I'm curious as to what sort of propaganda or misinformation you're referring to. I'm in Europe and I haven't seen much of it, but maybe it's different in the US.
it's not different in the US, there is not a market of misinformation about WWII here. There is the the anti-war left alleging that that the allies committed war crimes and their opponents rejecting those arguments, but it's easy to find what happened in Dresden, Holocaust, etc, the disagreement is on interpretation.
Re: Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
the power of disinformation on social media platforms is apparently stronger than classroom teaching. it doesn't help that what is taught in classrooms is just getting worse for $reasons which is only going to get worse now that states are going to do whatever they want with schools now.
social conditions are deteriorating so people are reaching for alternative explanations. you want people to reach for true history? then you have to show them true history will benefit them. fortunately, there is a way to do this, but powerful people hate it and prefer patriotic history and disciplined workforces instead. then they blame minorities for the problems they cause.
It is rather lazy that people 'prefer' patriotic history and 'disciplined workforce'. I see no evidence of this.
I do gather that some parents are rather sanctimonious and scandalized about their children learning anything but the most sanitized version of history. That seems so far to be the most presence in banning anything. Witness Harry Potter being listed as one of the most challenged book at the height of popularity.
History as it was taught in my grade school years certainly wasn't whitewashed and they are rather explicit about some of the horror. Moreover, the problem is that history wasn't taught well and made 'boring'.
Re: Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
social conditions are deteriorating so people are reaching for alternative explanations. you want people to reach for true history? then you have to show them true history will benefit them. fortunately, there is a way to do this, but powerful people hate it and prefer patriotic history and disciplined workforces instead. then they blame minorities for the problems they cause.
It is rather lazy that people 'prefer' patriotic history and 'disciplined workforce'. I see no evidence of this. I do gather that some parents are rather sanctimonious and scandalized about their children learning anything but the most sanitized version of history. That seems so far to be the most presence in banning anything. Witness Harry Potter being listed as one of the most challenged book at the height of popul…
>> Moreover, the problem is that history wasn't taught well and made 'boring'.
This. 100% this. At school we got an extremely biased view of history, but even then it was taught soooo badly.
History (regardless of viewpoint, correctness, or accuracy) could be an enormously exciting topic. It's full of things that would appeal to any child when presented well.
But school history curricula for me was full of meaningless names, dates, actions - endlessly repeated with no enthusiasm at all.
Re: Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
social conditions are deteriorating so people are reaching for alternative explanations. you want people to reach for true history? then you have to show them true history will benefit them. fortunately, there is a way to do this, but powerful people hate it and prefer patriotic history and disciplined workforces instead. then they blame minorities for the problems they cause.
It is rather lazy that people 'prefer' patriotic history and 'disciplined workforce'. I see no evidence of this. I do gather that some parents are rather sanctimonious and scandalized about their children learning anything but the most sanitized version of history. That seems so far to be the most presence in banning anything. Witness Harry Potter being listed as one of the most challenged book at the height of popul…
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. Real history is much more persuasive. US elites love patriotic history and try to enforce it in schools.
Re: Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
#78Only about a dozen years ago Bletchley was inviting former codebreakers back for an annual reunion. I used to go along to hear the talks, meet some of them and get books signed, including by Betty Webb. I'm glad they eventually got the recognition they deserved. We have almost lost the chance now to hear personal testimony of WWII. I've met several Battle of Britain pilots too, but the last died in Dublin recently: h…
It's insane how the largest conflict in human history is just now passing out of living memory. It's also insane how 1 in 4 Americans under 40 believe the holocaust is a fabrication or exaggeration.
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Re: Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
> all the propaganda and misinformation to be had these days about the events of WWII, the Holocaust, Hiroshima/Nagasaki and so many other things I'm curious as to what sort of propaganda or misinformation you're referring to. I'm in Europe and I haven't seen much of it, but maybe it's different in the US.
it's not different in the US, there is not a market of misinformation about WWII here. There is the the anti-war left alleging that that the allies committed war crimes and their opponents rejecting those arguments, but it's easy to find what happened in Dresden, Holocaust, etc, the disagreement is on interpretation.
The allies most definitely committed war crimes - the Red Army was pretty brutal in Eastern Europe, for example, for literally no reason. As for the Americans, there is certainly ongoing debate as to whether the nuclear weapons dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were really necessary.
Re: Bletchley code breaker Betty Webb dies aged 101
#80Somewhat unrelated: I'm hoping to go to Bletchley Park this summer, any recommendations?
This book, written by the man who created and ran the organization responsible for distributing the decrypted messages to political and military leaders: https://archive.org/details/ultrasecret00wint/
Really shows the extent and impact of this knowledge - they virtually sat at the same table as the Nazi high command.