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The case against conversational interfaces

julian.digital

71–80 of 225 posts

Re: The case against conversational interfaces

#71

Here's where the article goes wrong: 1. "Natural language is a data transfer mechanism" 2. "Data transfer mechanisms have two critical factors: speed and lossiness" 3. "Natural language has neither" While a conversational interface does transfer information, its main qualities are what I always refer to as "blissfull ignorance" and "intelligent interpretation". Blisfull ignorance allows the requester to state an obje…

> If you have a team of senior, experienced and bright engineers, you can with a few words point out a desire and, trust them to ask for information when there is relevant ambiguity, and expect a good outcome

It's such a fallacy. First thing an experienced and bright engineer will tell you is to leave the premises with your "few words about a desire" and not return without actual specs and requirements formalized in some way. If you do not understand what you want yourself, it means hours/days/weeks/months/literally years of back and forths and broken solutions and wasted time, because natural language is slow and lossy af (the article hits the nail on the head on this one).

Re "ask for information", my favorite example is when you say one thing if I ask you today and then you reply something else (maybe the opposite, it happened) if I ask you a week later because you forgot or just changed your mind. I bet a conversational interface will deal with this just fine /s

Re: The case against conversational interfaces

#73

shameless plug here but we have been building in a similar space. We call it tabtabtab.ai - https://tabtabtab.ai/ The core loop is promptless ai that’s guided by accessibility x screenshots & it’s everywhere on your Mac. You can snap this comment section or the front page and we’ll structure it for you if it’s a spreadsheet or write a tweet if you’re on Twitter.

I can't zoom in to your website on my phone without an email subscription prompt blocking the screen that I can't easily close, and each new zoom in or out repeats it.

Also, unless I'm missing something, the app is called TabTabTab while its only feature is copy & paste? Tabbing doesn't seem to be mentioned at all. I'm guessing tabbing is involved but there doesn't seem to be a word about it except from users referencing it in the reviews. It seems to only bill itself as "magic copy-paste".

Re: The case against conversational interfaces

#74
(assuming privacy is handled correctly) i like the idea of my pc always having a side-channel for communication of "simpler" things.

I m not sure how it could fit in to my 2 modalities of work: (i) alone in complete focus / silence (ii) in the office where there is already too much spoken communication between humans... maybe it s just a matter of getting used to it

Re: The case against conversational interfaces

#75

This clearly elucidated a number of things I've tried to explain to people who are so excited about "conversations" with computers. The example I've used (with varying levels of effectiveness) was to get someone to think about driving their car by only talking to it. Not a self driving car that does the driving for you, but telling it things like: turn, accelerate, stop, slow down, speed up, put on the blinker, turn…

You're onto something. We've learned to make computers and electronic devices feel like extensions of ourselves. We move our bodies and they do what we expect. Having to switch now to using our voice breaks that connection. Its no longer an extension of ourselves but a thing we interact with.

Two key things that make computers useful, specificity and exactitude, are thrown out of the window by interposing NLP between the person and the computer.

I don't get it at all.

Re: The case against conversational interfaces

#77
WPM and other attempts at putting a one specific number/metric to point to is imo only mudding the waters. Better way to think about just how awfully slow natural language (on average) is as an interface is to think about interactions with {whatever} in terms of *intents* and *actions*.

Comparing "What's the weather in London" with clicking the weather app icon is misleading and too simplistic. When people imagine a future driven by conversational interfaces, they usually picture use cases like:

1. "When is my next train leaving?"

2. "Show me my photos from the vacation in Italy with yellow flowers on them"

3. "Book a flight from New York to Zurich on {dates}"

...

And a way to highlight what's faster/less-noisy is to compare how natural language vs. mouse/touch maps onto the Intent -> Action. The thing is that interactions like these are generally so much more complex. E.g. Does the machine know what 'my' train is? If it doesn't, can it offer reasonable disambiguation? If it can't, what then? And does it present the information in a way where the next likely action is reachable, or will I need to converse about it?

You could picture a long table listing similar use cases in different contexts and compare various input methods and modalities and their speed. Flicking a finger on a 2d surface or using a mouse and a keyboard is going to be — on average — much faster and with less dead-ends.

Conversational interfaces are not the future. Imo even in the sense of 'augmenting', it's not going to happen. Natural-language driven interface will always play the role of a supporting (still important, though!) role. An accessibility aid when e.g. temporarily, permanently, or contextually not able to use the primary input method to 'encode your intent'.

Re: The case against conversational interfaces

#78
> but we’ve never found a mobile equivalent for keyboard shortcuts. Guess why we still don’t have a truly mobile-first productivity app after almost 20 years since the introduction of the iPhone?

Has it even been tried? Is there an iPhone text editing app with fully customizable keyboard that allows for setting up modes/gestures/shortcuts, scriptable if necessary?

> A natural language prompt like “Hey Google, what’s the weather in San Francisco today?” just takes 10x longer than simply tapping the weather app on your homescreen.

That's not entirely fair, the natural language could just as well be side button + saying "Weather" with the same result, though you can make app availability even easier by just displaying weather results on the homescreen without tapping

Re: The case against conversational interfaces

#80
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, his theory wasn't about video games though, they didn't exist in 1910, it was about the full breadth of human sensorial systems being used in the context of our neurology for a prolonged period of time during high neuroplasticity (0 to 6 was his theory). I haven't really played video games, so I don't know much about them personally.

No I get that; video games are just my medium of choice. The problem I was trying to get at is these arguments and perceptions usually stem from the degenerate cases, which only get worse the further in time you go, but I don’t think it’s really due to the technology itself. You have the same braindead systems appear in any medium of entertainment — there are definitely systems of total waste in sports, physical play…

I owe my entire career and livelihood to a childhood spent with the unbounded timesinks that were the games available to me on Amiga and my PC.

I might be a touch different in that it was obvious where I was going, and the correct decision was made to embrace my interest in the glowing screen and yes, the video games. It was video games more than anything else from which all other interests spawned.

More often than not it probably ends badly though I suppose. Despite a lifetime spent in front of screens all my social abilities work, I have a wide friends circle, a partner, my job requires me to work well with a wide variety of individuals and demographics etc which I couldn’t do otherwise. I have noticed this is not the case with all who shared a similar background.

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