Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

openai.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 82 posts

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#71

Post by nickthegreek »

vessenes wrote: post #34

For those wondering how to answer "what do you want to see from an open model" I put this in: an open weights end to end multimodal model, a model large enough to act as a functional teacher along with a range of nicely distilled smaller sizes, code repo to make training / finetuning easy. As I write this, I'd also like to request a set of tool calling LLMs in various sizes. Feels to me like a small fast local tool c…

Id hope they will also start to target machines with 128gb of unified ram now that we seem to have at least 3 options on that front.

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#72

Post by chad1n »

vntok wrote: post #16
mbrezu wrote: post #11

> Let's start with your details

Well obviously they will have thousands of applications from which they need to make a selection removing trolls, luddites, etc. How would you do it without asking for some applicants' details?

Considering how much they trust their LLMs, why don't they just run o1-pro to make a summary of the responses given in the feedback

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#73

Post by 9rx »

wewtyflakes wrote: post #69
9rx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not just ask the people who are going, directly? "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses" You don't poll people to find out what they want. You poll people to gather their ideas. Ideas that you can then leverage to deliver what your intended audience wants, even when they didn't know that they wanted it! If we assume this party you are throwing has 10 guests, you think you're…

I think asking 10 people instead of 8 billion people is a more reasonable way to discover the preferences of those 10 people. That is not to say there is not interesting information at the margin, but it is the margin.

Why not ask the 10 people and 8 billion other people? The 10 people might have good ideas too, but no need to rely on them entirely. Most especially when you are OpenAI and can throw your language models at finding the useful information found in those 8 billion responses.

The artificial divide you are trying to create is unnecessary and not a reflection of the real world. Most people will gather input from as far as wide as they can. They might not be able to operate at anything close to OpenAI scale, but even Average Joe will turn to random strangers (e.g. on Facebook or Reddit) to get party ideas.

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#74

Post by fooker »

rockinghigh wrote: post #54
fooker wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a kind of an open secret that there's no 'training' protocol for these state of the art models. Researchers behave like alchemists when training these models, and the actions are not really reproducible.

They could provide access to the training code. It's useful for training smaller models or distilling larger ones. They don't need to release every details involved in tuning the optimization parameters during the pre-training stage.

There is no training 'code' that will get you anything close to a usable result.

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#75

Post by politelemon »

nickthegreek wrote: post #71
vessenes wrote: post #34

For those wondering how to answer "what do you want to see from an open model" I put this in: an open weights end to end multimodal model, a model large enough to act as a functional teacher along with a range of nicely distilled smaller sizes, code repo to make training / finetuning easy. As I write this, I'd also like to request a set of tool calling LLMs in various sizes. Feels to me like a small fast local tool c…

Id hope they will also start to target machines with 128gb of unified ram now that we seem to have at least 3 options on that front.

I'd rather see more openness and the ability to run on commodity hardware. There are hundreds of options on that front.

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#76

Post by wewtyflakes »

9rx wrote: post #73
wewtyflakes wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think asking 10 people instead of 8 billion people is a more reasonable way to discover the preferences of those 10 people. That is not to say there is not interesting information at the margin, but it is the margin.

Why not ask the 10 people and 8 billion other people? The 10 people might have good ideas too, but no need to rely on them entirely. Most especially when you are OpenAI and can throw your language models at finding the useful information found in those 8 billion responses. The artificial divide you are trying to create is unnecessary and not a reflection of the real world. Most people will gather input from as far as…

Because these populations are orders of magnitude apart in size, intent, and investment; and trying to find the diamond in the rough for a 10-person survey is a lot easier than an 8-billion person survey. How about if you own a burger joint in Kansas and you are being told you need to send out a survey to people in Peru, because there might be some good insight there? Sure, maybe there is, but this is not helpful advice.

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#77

Post by vessenes »

EGreg wrote: post #68
vessenes wrote: post #34

For those wondering how to answer "what do you want to see from an open model" I put this in: an open weights end to end multimodal model, a model large enough to act as a functional teacher along with a range of nicely distilled smaller sizes, code repo to make training / finetuning easy. As I write this, I'd also like to request a set of tool calling LLMs in various sizes. Feels to me like a small fast local tool c…

and guess what they did announce they'll release open weights :) https://x.com/sama/status/1906793591944646898?s=46&t=6NqVriD... to be honest many of us never saw that coming... LOL

I don’t think it will be an end to end multimodal model, unless they’re holding that shocker for later - he says “language model” in the announcement. So basically o3 mini, not 4o multimodal.

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#78

Post by vntok »

j_maffe wrote: post #38
vntok wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be ignored? They're the ones asking.

would you write a response just to be read by an LLM?

Sure, I do it everyday when I chat with AIs. Humans not reading our exchanges doesn't bother me particularly.

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#79

Post by 9rx »

wewtyflakes wrote: post #76
9rx wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not ask the 10 people and 8 billion other people? The 10 people might have good ideas too, but no need to rely on them entirely. Most especially when you are OpenAI and can throw your language models at finding the useful information found in those 8 billion responses. The artificial divide you are trying to create is unnecessary and not a reflection of the real world. Most people will gather input from as far as…

Because these populations are orders of magnitude apart in size, intent, and investment; and trying to find the diamond in the rough for a 10-person survey is a lot easier than an 8-billion person survey. How about if you own a burger joint in Kansas and you are being told you need to send out a survey to people in Peru, because there might be some good insight there? Sure, maybe there is, but this is not helpful adv…

Why wouldn't it be helpful? I am almost certainly going to get better ideas from people introducing me to Peruvian flavours than a bunch of "I like what is on the Big Mac" responses.

Sure, one of my customers in Kansas might have a brilliant idea that I've never considered, but much more likely I'll already be familiar with anything they can dream up.

1. They are going to come from much the same background as I.

2. They are apt to be home cooks at best, while a burger joint is expected to elevate.

Topping a burger is an implementation detail. Within reason, the customer doesn't really care about what is on the burger as long as it tastes good. In a similar vein, are you going to ask the expected users of your new cat meme app which programming language you should use?

Re: OpenAI releasing new open model in coming months, seeks community feedback

#80

Post by WithinReason »

pera wrote: post #52

Open model is such a misnomer: it's like calling an ELF an "open executable". Distributing things for free doesn't make them "open". The reality is that free (as in free beer ) weights are closer to freeware than anything open source. In fact, since all these models are build using pirated media a more appropriate term could be plain old warez .

Getting weights without the training set and training scripts still gives you a form that's modifiable by end users, a single person can fine-tune a model. Getting the training scripts and dataset gives you nothing useful unless you have millions to burn. "Open weights" are closer to the spirit of open source than training scripts and datasets.
Post reply on HN