Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Talkin’ about a Revolution

drb.ie

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 307 posts

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#71

Post by fransje26 »

graemep wrote: post #19

The world gets both better and worse. it is something that I regularly get voted down for saying here, but IMO the west is unduly pessimist because it had a golden age from winning the cold war until the late 2000s, took an overly optimistic view of the future and the inevitability of progress (remember "the end of history") and cannot cope with things going back to normal. Things get better, sometimes they get worse…

> and cannot cope with things going back to normal.

I would argue that we worked our way to the post cold-war golden age, and then destroyed it with greed, which led to financial pain, which led to political nonsense, which led to the rubbish we are in right now.

So the period we are in right now is not the "back to normal" phase, but an actual decrease of human evolution. Not dissimilar to things that happened in the past, for example with the collapse of the roman empire.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#72

Post by sofixa »

lynx97 wrote: post #38
dudefeliciano wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not stupid, just lacking class consciousness

I would love if the public discourse would allow for more diversity of opinions. Unfortunately, where I come from, the left has simplified the rhetoric to "If you are of a different opinion then we are, you are either badly educated (read, stupid) or a nazi." Unfortunately, this elitist attitude has only contributed to the divide of the people.

> If you are of a different opinion then we are, you are either badly educated (read, stupid) or a nazi

Depending on where you are from, this could absolutely be true, as "elitist" and insulting as it might be. Well, fascist is more appropriate than Nazi because Nazi is superset of fascism with a heavy anti-semitic element, and I'm not aware of many rabidly anti-semitic parties in the mainstream in many countries.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#73

Post by username332211 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #24
DeathArrow wrote: post #17

[flagged]

This tired old contention that some great historical thinker is somehow single-handedly responsible for the fall of civilisation is nothing more than railing against intellect itself.

It is precisely the opposite.

A world where Karl Marx isn't responsible for millions of deaths is a world where the existence of intellectuals is ultimately pointless. There, a wise potentate could send philosophers into labor camps and he'd only benefit from the elimination of waste.

If you believe that ideas matter, then you should allow for spectacularly bad ideas to have spectacularly bad real world consequences.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#74

Post by watwut »

sofixa wrote: post #64
baxtr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked to a history professor recently and asked him how he viewed the whole situation. He leaned back, thought for a bit and answered: It’ll be all fine on a 200 years perspective, democracy will continue to increase its footprint, people will lead better lives. It’s the next 30 years I’m worried about. PS: ofc, I have no clue if he’s right or not. But I thought it’s an interesting take to share.

> It’ll be all fine on a 200 years perspective, democracy will continue to increase its footprint, people will lead better lives. What could that be based on? Ask the people in Venezuela, South Africa for instance, things can definitely get much worse even for decently developed countries with democracy and a solid economic foundation. Combine with the growth of religiosness in young people across multiple growing co…

To be fair, he was making wild guesses. He is professor of history, not a professor of omens. He can't read future, no more then anyone else.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#75

Post by boxed »

totetsu wrote: post #52
boxed wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% of the population of Israel are Palestinians with full rights. Some were killed 7/10. There's a muslim party in the Knesset. Remind me again: how many black parties had representation in apartheid South Africa? You are confused because Israel HAS A apartheid state: the settlements (a small part of Israel in total). But that's not the same as Israel IS A apartheid state. If you can't separate HAS A from IS A you w…

> There's a muslim party in the Knesset. here is how they are treated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avEhWwouQ8k&lc=Ugz8DeAmwrGXX... >20% of the population of Israel are Palestinians with full rights. full rights to be evicted and have their homes demolished. https://www.newarab.com/news/land-ours-bedouins-fight-explus...

And even though they are treated badly, they still have voting rights. This is not Apartheid. It just isn't.

> full rights to be evicted and have their homes demolished

That case is being tried in courts. Such an action against blacks in South Africa would never have been in a court. Your sources prove my point.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#76

Post by boxed »

mardifoufs wrote: post #45
boxed wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% of the population of Israel are Palestinians with full rights. Some were killed 7/10. There's a muslim party in the Knesset. Remind me again: how many black parties had representation in apartheid South Africa? You are confused because Israel HAS A apartheid state: the settlements (a small part of Israel in total). But that's not the same as Israel IS A apartheid state. If you can't separate HAS A from IS A you w…

That's all cool. But it's just standard deflection from the tens of thousands of deaths that the Biden administration directly enabled. And Arabs living in Israel doesn't magically make all the very public statements that Israel made (like that they wanted to level the city to the ground, and displace its population once and for all), repeatedly and throughout the entire Gaza operation just go away.

Israel didn't make those statements. Specific members of radical parties did. Imagine judging a country by their worst people. I bet your country would fare quite badly.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#77

Post by facile3232 »

eMPee584 wrote: post #66
baxtr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked to a history professor recently and asked him how he viewed the whole situation. He leaned back, thought for a bit and answered: It’ll be all fine on a 200 years perspective, democracy will continue to increase its footprint, people will lead better lives. It’s the next 30 years I’m worried about. PS: ofc, I have no clue if he’s right or not. But I thought it’s an interesting take to share.

Oh, coincidentally, that is just the time window of the technological singularity.. where we either ascend to a peace- & powerful interplanetary civilization - or accidentally eradicate ourselves out of a collective lack of wisdom and sense of connectedness. Let's play..

I think the "technological singularity" is just the rapture for people who listen to sam harris

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#78

Post by boxed »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #62
boxed wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://x.com/Aizenberg55/status/1905249003291484566 Looking at those graphs I think one sees a war started by the weaker force and losing badly. A genocide in the same way as a bully being smacked in his face is bullying.

You realize genocide has nothing to do with graphs? It has to do with the leaders of the army accused saying they want to use starvation of the civilians of their own country as a tool of war among various other things. Since Israel does not recognize any Palestinian nation, and is the de facto occupier of the land the Palestinians live on, they are effectively civilians in the Israeli state

> You realize genocide has nothing to do with graphs?

Strange statement. Facts have everything to do with graphs. If you ignore facts, then your statements are empty of all meaning.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#80

Post by TeMPOraL »

davedx wrote: post #68
graemep wrote: post #19

The world gets both better and worse. it is something that I regularly get voted down for saying here, but IMO the west is unduly pessimist because it had a golden age from winning the cold war until the late 2000s, took an overly optimistic view of the future and the inevitability of progress (remember "the end of history") and cannot cope with things going back to normal. Things get better, sometimes they get worse…

> People do not change all that much morally This is debatable. In fact, the US culture war is absolutely about what American "morality" should be. It's what a lot of the Project 2025 Manifesto is about: "The document spans a wide range of policy areas, but when it comes to culture, family, and morality, it emphasizes a return to traditional values, a rollback of progressive social policies, and an assertive use of f…

> There's a reason it's called a Culture War and not a Culture Mild Disagreement.

Culture war at this point is more than a decade old. It did not start with Project 2025. It started on the Internet.

Also, GP said people do not change all that much morally. That much is true. Organizations change fast. Societies change slower. The acted on rules are a combination of three, but it's important to be aware of the distinctions and the dynamics.

Post reply on HN