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The role of developer skills in agentic coding

martinfowler.com

71–80 of 204 posts

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#71

I've been playing around with vibe coding and I think a lot of the issues brought up could be fixed by an architecture abstraction layer that does not exist today. My idea would be something like an architecture-graph (Archigraph working title) that would recursively describe how an application works or should work. Then when an agentic coder is doing a task they can easily see the bigger picture of how an applicatio…

I was playing with the idea about setting up something like this!

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#72
post #12

I use Cursor for most of my development these days. This article aligns pretty closely with my experiences. A few additional observations: 1. Anecdotally, AI agents feel stuck somewhere circa ~2021. If I install newer packages, Claude will revert to outdated packages/implementations that were popular four years ago. This is incredibly frustrating to watch and correct for. Providing explicit instructions for which pac…

#1 is going to be an issue until we have another breakthrough or genuinely innovative approach.

We all know that 2 years is a lifetime in tech (for better or for worse), and we've all trained ourselves to keep up with a rapidly changing industry in a way that's more efficient than fully retraining a model with considerably more novel data.

For instance, enough people have started to move away from React for more innovative or standards-based approaches. HTML and CSS alone have come a long way since 2013 when React was a huge leap forward. But while those of us doing the development might have that realization, the training data won't reflect that for a good amount of time. So until then, trying to build a non-React approach will involve wrestling with the LLM until the point when the model has caught up.

At which point, we will likely still be ahead of the curve in terms of the solutions it provides.

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#73

I'm surprised to not see an obvious one (for me): Use AI around the periphery. There's very often a heap of dev tools, introspection, logging, conversion, etc tools that need to be build and maintained. I've had a lot of luck using agents to make and fix these. For example a tool that collates data and logs in a bespoke planning system. It is a lot of generated boilerplate off the critical path to build these tools a…

In my every day experience that's pretty risky. The periphery as you call it is often an area where you lack the expertise to spot and correct AI mistakes.

I am thinking about build systems and shell scripts. I see people everyday going to AI before even looking at the docs and invariably failing with non-existent command line options, or worst options that break things in very subtle ways.

Same people that when you tell them why don't you read the f-ing man page they go to google to look it up instead of opening a terminal.

Same people that push through an unknown problem by trial and error instead of reading the docs first. But now they have this dumb counselor that steers them in the wrong direction most of the time and the whole process is even more error prone.

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#74
post #12

I use Cursor for most of my development these days. This article aligns pretty closely with my experiences. A few additional observations: 1. Anecdotally, AI agents feel stuck somewhere circa ~2021. If I install newer packages, Claude will revert to outdated packages/implementations that were popular four years ago. This is incredibly frustrating to watch and correct for. Providing explicit instructions for which pac…

While you give your process feedback, here is my emotions related one. When I dev with LLM, I don't face my own limits in term of reasoning and architecturing, but I face the limit of the model to interpret prompts. Instead of trying to be a better engineer, I'm frustratingly prompting an unintelligent human-like interface.

I'm not fuding LLM, I use it everyday, all the time. But it won't make me a better engineer. And I deeply believe that becoming a good engineer helped me becoming a better human, because how the job make you face your own limits, train you to be humble and constantly learning.

Vibe coding won't lead to that same and sane mindset.

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you referring to?

GP was apparently unaware until now that martinfowler.com has basically been a blog/article hosting site (though more in the highly curated sense than a generic hosting site, more akin to a trade publication) for the last couple decades and that not all the content is written by Martin Fowler himself. The author of this piece is Birgitta Böckeler.

Kinda like rogerebert.com, even before the esteemed film critic's death.

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#76

I've been playing around with vibe coding and I think a lot of the issues brought up could be fixed by an architecture abstraction layer that does not exist today. My idea would be something like an architecture-graph (Archigraph working title) that would recursively describe how an application works or should work. Then when an agentic coder is doing a task they can easily see the bigger picture of how an applicatio…

I've been thinking about this myself, although just planning to reuse what's already there.

How do you picture the human in the loop?

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#77

I've been using Claude to help write a complex prototype for game dev. Overall it's been a big productivity boost. However as the project has grown Claude has gotten much worse. I'm nearing 15k lines and it's borderline more trouble than it's worth. Even when it was helpful, it needed a _lot_ of guidance from me. Almost more helpful as a "rubber ducky" and for the fact that it kept me from deadlocking on analysis. Th…

Why not just split the tasks, and have different projects only house a portion of the code?

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#78

I've been playing around with vibe coding and I think a lot of the issues brought up could be fixed by an architecture abstraction layer that does not exist today. My idea would be something like an architecture-graph (Archigraph working title) that would recursively describe how an application works or should work. Then when an agentic coder is doing a task they can easily see the bigger picture of how an applicatio…

Give me a shot

Re: The role of developer skills in agentic coding

#80
post #12

I use Cursor for most of my development these days. This article aligns pretty closely with my experiences. A few additional observations: 1. Anecdotally, AI agents feel stuck somewhere circa ~2021. If I install newer packages, Claude will revert to outdated packages/implementations that were popular four years ago. This is incredibly frustrating to watch and correct for. Providing explicit instructions for which pac…

While you give your process feedback, here is my emotions related one. When I dev with LLM, I don't face my own limits in term of reasoning and architecturing, but I face the limit of the model to interpret prompts. Instead of trying to be a better engineer, I'm frustratingly prompting an unintelligent human-like interface. I'm not fuding LLM, I use it everyday, all the time. But it won't make me a better engineer. A…

I feel like this is the big question now. How to find the correct balance that lets you preserve and improve your skills. I haven’t yet found the answer, but I feel like it should be in being very deliberate about what you let the agent do, and what kind of work you do in the “artisanal” way, so not even AI-enabled auto-complete.

But in order to be able to find the right balance, one does need to learn fully what the agent can do, and have a lot of experience with that way of coding. Otherwise the mental model is wrong.

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