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Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

theintercept.com

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Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#71

Post by sixothree »

stvltvs wrote: post #62
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acts in public are not protected. This, however is: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Posting on a publicly accesible website is the legal equivalent of standing on the street corner having a conversation. A police officer doesn't need to search anything because it's out in the open.

Yes. But you cannot follow a person around indefinitely.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#73

Post by arrosenberg »

honeybadger1 wrote: post #69
arrosenberg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a really good point! The average law abiding citizen is much more afraid of petty crime against Elon Musk, a man who does the Nazi salute, than they are about losing their constitutional rights. That is how we wound up with a militarized police force in the first place, with the average person being more afraid of terrorism than encroaching totalitarianism. > i would argue the people in these protests are li…

[flagged]

No, I'm not mad, I just don't see the link between the Gaza protestors (who I don't particularly support) and the vandals torching Teslas. And now you are mentioning Kyle Rittenhouse, which seems like another canard.

I don't see any evidence between those things, I'm wondering if you have any or if you just think all protesters are criminals?

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#74

Post by Tostino »

tptacek wrote: post #68
text0404 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a police officer observing you briefly with their eyes is quite different than an entire police department outsourcing surveillance of protected activities to a third party which monitors your online activity over time.

How? What expectation of privacy do you have walking down the street, or in your public social media posts?

The expectation is there is a limitation on resources that can be deployed for law enforcement officers viewing things with their eyes. It's virtually unlimited with technology.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#75

Post by CodeWriter23 »

sixothree wrote: post #71
stvltvs wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting on a publicly accesible website is the legal equivalent of standing on the street corner having a conversation. A police officer doesn't need to search anything because it's out in the open.

Yes. But you cannot follow a person around indefinitely.

That's the thing about exigency, it is temporary.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#76

Post by potato3732842 »

stvltvs wrote: post #62
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acts in public are not protected. This, however is: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Posting on a publicly accesible website is the legal equivalent of standing on the street corner having a conversation. A police officer doesn't need to search anything because it's out in the open.

A conversation is ephemeral unless someone specifically goes out of their way to record it. That is not true by default for just about anything involving a computer and we all know it. Where's the line between obtuse and lying?

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#78

Post by text0404 »

tptacek wrote: post #68
text0404 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a police officer observing you briefly with their eyes is quite different than an entire police department outsourcing surveillance of protected activities to a third party which monitors your online activity over time.

How? What expectation of privacy do you have walking down the street, or in your public social media posts?

mostly scale: accumulation of data over time and use of that data (a single brief observation of an anonymous person vs identification and observation of a person over time, with real-time activities reported to law enforcement). same way that it's unacceptable/illegal for a police officer - without probable cause or a warrant - to follow you down the street to your home, then wait outside your home and follow you 24/7, recording all your activities which exist in the public sphere, then putting you on a departmental watchlist where your protected activities are broadcast to all officers in real-time.

you may be ok with that ("i don't have anything to hide", "i trust the police/government", "the free market will prevent abuses [by companies like Dataminr]" are some rebuttals i've heard recently), but it undermines our constitutional rights, setting a dangerous precedent and chilling free speech/association (per the ACLU). additionally, how else is this collected information being used by the police and Dataminr? what are their retention policies? what other kinds of analysis are being done (fta, there seems to be a not-insignificant number of false positives)?

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#79

Post by lenerdenator »

CalChris wrote: post #34
lenerdenator wrote: post #6

Is this really surprising to anyone? If you're out in public and using public websites to organize protests, it's a given that data will be mined about that. The trick is to make it unattractive for those doing the enforcing to act upon their analysis of that data.

This is surprising. Why are the police monitoring constitutionally protected activity?

They do it more than you'd think. There're a ton of pictures of La Cosa Nostra members walking around in Brooklyn taken by FBI agents. They even made sure to get the good side of Casso and Gotti.

Walking around and talking to each other? Constitutionally protected.

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