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What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

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Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#71

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

zenolijo wrote: post #27
serviceberry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a lot of environmental movements aren't rooted in utilitarianism, but in deeper beliefs that the endless pursuit of growth is inherently evil. The basic idea is that tigers and wolves have as much right to the planet as we do, and we've already taken too much. Hence the degrowth movement, etc. This is why many environmental activists see cheap, abundant energy as problematic. It would mean less air pollution…

I only personally know one person who had been an active member in Extinction Rebellion and I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. It seems like they all agree that the amount of growth we have today is unsustainable, but what sustainable growth exactly is and in turn how much growth needs to be compromised is not agreed upon. So I don't believe that endless pursuit of growth is against most of their members opin…

Growth? What growth?

Which Western nations have a fertility rate above replacement?

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#72

Post by fc417fc802 »

somishere wrote: post #66
celticninja wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it turned out there was still a consideration of other people. For example if Nazi Germany got the bomb first then many more people would have been miserable. The greater good

The Marshall Islands tests were carried out after the end of WWII. It's worth considering that the US also used the islands as a dumping ground for waste from previous tests in the US [1] ... At a site which is now under threat of leaking due to the effects of climate change [2] [1] https://www.latimes.com/projects/marshall-islands-nuclear-te... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runit_Island

You really can't make this up. We have geological formations within our territory that are both incredibly stable as well as located within a dry climate. Yet we choose to use one of the least stable locations in terms of both geology, surrounding environment, and weather available to us.

I think the only way you could top this would be to place a vault at ground level that spanned the San Andreas fault.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#73

Post by fc417fc802 »

serviceberry wrote: post #59
ip26 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those only really took off because the QOL sacrifice became close to negligible.

More importantly, a lot of it was hidden from view. Your washing machine and laundry detergent might be not as good as 30 years ago, but... do you know that for sure? And when did that happen? Maybe you're just imagining it. Your old home had a gas furnace, and then you bought new construction and it's all-electric. Did the government do this? Are you even gonna think about it when making an offer? Your bill is gonna…

Case in point, at some point people realized what was going on with pickup trucks in the US.

> do you know that for sure?

Yes. I absolutely loathe modern washing machines. The irony is that they don't actually save any water because I end up running them multiple times. One of these days I will hopefully get around to gutting mine to replace the control box with an RPi. It's a lot of busy work for something that ought to function well to begin with.

> Your bill is gonna be higher,

Maybe not with a modern mini-split setup. Those are genuinely better than anything that came before them. As a bonus, they remove the failure mode of "blow up your house" that all gas appliances inherently carry.

You can also power them with solar, removing your day to day reliance on the grid.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#74

Post by tdeck »

declan_roberts wrote: post #9

I wonder why "extinction rebellion" types don't love nuclear power more. When it works right we have unlimited clean energy. And when it goes wrong you have a 50,000 year nature preserve.

What is this baaed on, vibes? I don't see an official position on nuclear power from XR. All I can find is discussions like this where people discuss a diversity of views about nuclear power.

https://old.reddit.com/r/ExtinctionRebellion/comments/bhah12...

Extinction rebellion is focused on forcing politicians to take climate change seriously and make urgent policy changes. If politicians want to meet them with "we are taking this seriously, we're making a massive investment into nuclear power" they're free to do so.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#75

Post by oskarkk »

BurningFrog wrote: post #67

The thriving wildlife sounds a lot like Chernobyl. When humans disappear, nature thrives. The higher mutation and cancer rates don't really matter in aggregate.

I think that harmful effects of radiation in places like that matter mostly in the context of life expectancy and the well-being of individual organisms (that may be unlucky to e.g. ingest some particularly radiating matter and quickly die), but not the general growth of the population. Higher cancer rates may not matter much if the organisms that get cancer can reproduce before they die. Compared to other types of pollution and other human-related dangers to wildlife, some level of radiation isn't that harmful to nature.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#76

Post by BigGreenJorts »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #72
somishere wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Marshall Islands tests were carried out after the end of WWII. It's worth considering that the US also used the islands as a dumping ground for waste from previous tests in the US [1] ... At a site which is now under threat of leaking due to the effects of climate change [2] [1] https://www.latimes.com/projects/marshall-islands-nuclear-te... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runit_Island

You really can't make this up. We have geological formations within our territory that are both incredibly stable as well as located within a dry climate. Yet we choose to use one of the least stable locations in terms of both geology, surrounding environment, and weather available to us. I think the only way you could top this would be to place a vault at ground level that spanned the San Andreas fault.

> We have geological formations within our territory that are both incredibly stable as well as located within a dry climate.

Even more comical is that it's not like we didn't think of that because we literally do use that space for those reasons. We just also decided to fill the atoll with large amounts of nuclear waste... Seemingly for fun. To give the benefit of the doubt, for transportation logistics reasons.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#77

Post by BigGreenJorts »

concordDance wrote: post #35
serviceberry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a lot of environmental movements aren't rooted in utilitarianism, but in deeper beliefs that the endless pursuit of growth is inherently evil. The basic idea is that tigers and wolves have as much right to the planet as we do, and we've already taken too much. Hence the degrowth movement, etc. This is why many environmental activists see cheap, abundant energy as problematic. It would mean less air pollution…

> Hence the degrowth movement, etc. The oddest thing about this to me is that they don't seem to think through what exactly this implies. If one truly believes in the need to reduce human population then by far the highest margin things are not things like preserving a few hundred year old forest in England, but mass introduction of contraceptives to the DRC. It'll be places like Nigeria and Congo that dominate in te…

The introduction of mass contraceptives in DRC and its neighbors is happening. There's a lot of social and economic drivers that make it hard however.

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#78

Post by SapporoChris »

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #60
somishere wrote: post #57

My wife is currently in the Marshall Islands commemorating an anniversary related to the nuclear testing. The trauma and fallout, cultural and nuclear, persists to this day - over 7 decades (and how many generations?) since the Bravo test. I've heard and read a lot about the atrocities visited upon the Marshallese in the name of research in the last six months. Including around the potential "intentionality" of the h…

When it comes to the most powerful weapon in the world special at that time There is little to none consideration for nature and people. Would you rather own the most powerful weapon and be the most powerful state or consider life’s of other people?

"Would you rather own the most powerful weapon and be the most powerful state or consider life’s of other people?" Have you considered developing weapons and power seeking while considering the lives of other people?

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#79

Post by genewitch »

twoodfin wrote: post #58
genewitch wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People went with the green bin initiative in the US, perhaps elsewhere. we switched to more fuel efficient cars in general when fuel became more expensive. New home construction and retrofits to make houses fully electric - no gas hobs, not gas furnace. these were all "QOL" adjustments that people have been making. You have to pitch things the correct way, and it would really help if it wasn't treated as an "Ideologi…

If for some unimaginable reason the western world had embraced this philosophy wholeheartedly in 1985, literally billions of people would be struggling in grinding poverty (or worse!) instead of living significantly better lives than their parents or grandparents. Is it different now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch

https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6...

i don't know, you tell me. And billions are in poverty now so i'm not sure this is a productive conversation. 44.9% of the global population is under $6.85 per day. 740mm try to survive on less than $2.15 a day.

45% of the earth's population is 3,700,000,000 or so, which, if my counting of commas is correct, is "literally billions of people"

Re: What Bikini Atoll Looks Like Today (2017)

#80

Post by genewitch »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #73
serviceberry wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, a lot of it was hidden from view. Your washing machine and laundry detergent might be not as good as 30 years ago, but... do you know that for sure? And when did that happen? Maybe you're just imagining it. Your old home had a gas furnace, and then you bought new construction and it's all-electric. Did the government do this? Are you even gonna think about it when making an offer? Your bill is gonna…

Case in point, at some point people realized what was going on with pickup trucks in the US. > do you know that for sure? Yes. I absolutely loathe modern washing machines. The irony is that they don't actually save any water because I end up running them multiple times. One of these days I will hopefully get around to gutting mine to replace the control box with an RPi. It's a lot of busy work for something that ough…

> The irony is that they don't actually save any water because I end up running them multiple times.

i have an HE2 (which everyone, universally hates) and it cleans clothes fine with 1 load where you can't even see the top of the water most of the time. You have to load high efficiency top loading machines different than your grandparents loaded their speed queens. You must not put anything over the impeller. everything must go around the edges before the water starts. the impellers in HE washers don't agitate around the torus of the tub, they agitate like the electric field on a torus around the tub, so they go bottom, bottom middle, upper middle, upper, upper outer, bottom outer, bottom; in a loop. if you put stuff in the middle to start, it'll just swish that back and forth and never clean anything. Sometimes stuff won't even get wet, or you'll have dried soap stuck to your clothes.

secondly, don't use fabric softener. If you must use something because of your water quality, use vinegar.

If you need to wash sheets, curtains, blankets, comforters and the like, you can't put them around the outside, because the HE washers do that cycle differently, too. You have to gather the fabric like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bindle sack, start with the sheet or whatever flat, fold all four corners (or whatever) into the middle so they all meet in the middle. Then pick it up by the four corners (or whatever) and place it in the washer with the middle of the sheet down and the four corners on top. Like a bindle sack. use the "sheets / heavy duty" cycle for sheets and the like. that's what it's for.

please, let me know if this solves your issues.

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