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The College-Cost Calamity

economist.com

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Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#71

Post by mcherm »

hollerith wrote: post #52
mcherm wrote: post #43

College tuition is too high and rising too fast -- that's nothing new. But this article wasn't (primarily) about that, this article was about how borrowing by colleges and universities is shooting up. In their defense, I want to say that I think it is an example of wise financial management with a long-term view. Most institutions struggle to consider any time horizon beyond the current year (if not just the current…

The problem with your analysis is that eventually the loan comes due, and there's no guarantee that interest rates will still be low at that time.

The sort of loans that these institutions take probably do not come due all at once. And if they do (certain kinds of bonds) then the institution plans for it. If they're borrowing the money and planning to re-borrow when it comes due then they are truly foolish, but it is more likely that they plan to pay the loan off over time.

Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#72

Post by mcherm »

tsotha wrote: post #29
stevencorona wrote: post #9

The craziest part, IMO, is that I had to make a decision whether or not to take on $175,000 in debt (I went to RIT, it costs $44,000 per year) when I was 18 years old and had never handled more than $300. Sure! Sign me up! I couldn't even imagine what that much money would look like, let alone feel like to pay back- at that time, it was as equally mysterious as $10,000 or $1,000,000. Luckily, I left after my 2nd year…

Why in the world would you go to a college that costs that much if you weren't rich?

Because of the fear that if you didn't go you would never have the opportunity to become rich, or even to become middle class.

Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#73

Post by BadassFractal »

rdl wrote: post #8
lsc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fewer jobs, more education required to fill those positions I'm not seeing this. I mean, fewer jobs, sure, but If by education, you mean 'formal education' I mean, other than as a class marker (try getting a barista job post-college age without a degree) a huge number of employed people I know do not have a degree relivant to their career. Perhaps most. I know a fair number of people in my industry (including myself…

Outside of startups and operations, college degrees still seem to be pretty mandatory, and even more so outside the US. I suspect, for instance, a rural Idaho government agency hiring a sysadmin will expect a 2 or 4 year degree.

Outside of the US quality degrees are often orders of magnitude cheaper to obtain as well, perhaps justifying the requirement.

Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#74

Post by Daniel_Newby »

pbiggar wrote: post #70
Daniel_Newby wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are badly misinformed. Indentured servitude is a contract to serve for a fixed term in exchange for large up-front compensation. It is not a financial debt but a performance obligation, and cannot be inherited.

I have stated my source in another comment. Indentured servitude is of course used a various points in history to refer to different things. But I am not "badly misinformed" - I have read a decent amount about modern day slavery, if you believe me to be wrong, please state a source. Mine, as stated above, was a book on slavery by the head of the "Free the Slaves" organization.

You are nonetheless mistaken. If "indentured servitude" is being used in that way, it is being misused as a tool of the slaveholders to whitewash their actions. By joining them in that misuse, you have conceded your own mind and become a willing collaborator. This matters: tyrants gain power by controlling minds, not bodies.

Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#75

Post by pbiggar »

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #74
pbiggar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have stated my source in another comment. Indentured servitude is of course used a various points in history to refer to different things. But I am not "badly misinformed" - I have read a decent amount about modern day slavery, if you believe me to be wrong, please state a source. Mine, as stated above, was a book on slavery by the head of the "Free the Slaves" organization.

You are nonetheless mistaken. If "indentured servitude" is being used in that way, it is being misused as a tool of the slaveholders to whitewash their actions. By joining them in that misuse, you have conceded your own mind and become a willing collaborator. This matters: tyrants gain power by controlling minds, not bodies.

You misunderstand me. I am not whitewashing anything. Indentured servitude is slavery. It describes one particular form of slavery, common in some parts of the world. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm saying it is tolerable or OK.

What I am saying is that college debt from middle class 1st world adults is not indentured servitude.

Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#76

Post by tsotha »

brianto2010 wrote: post #69
tsotha wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in the world would you go to a college that costs that much if you weren't rich?

Co-op program. And networking. A lot of companies see RIT as a huge talent pool, and dedicate quite a bit of recruiting resources to look for potential interns and full-timers. Plus, you'll find peers that you can use to develop your professional network.

>A lot of companies see RIT as a huge talent pool, and dedicate quite a bit of recruiting resources to look for potential interns and full-timers. Plus, you'll find peers that you can use to develop your professional network.

That's too much money to spend on a technical degree. You could make the argument Harvard or Yale is worth that kind of money because your contacts are with people who are going to be senators and CEOs. But a place like RIT? $44k/yr is way too much money for what you're going to get.

Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#77

Post by tsotha »

arethuza wrote: post #36
tsotha wrote: post #28

What can't go on, won't. There's no reason a college needs to charge $40k to an undergraduate. What's changed in the US over the last few decades is the ratio of administrators to students. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it went from something like 1 in 9 to 1 in 3. Colleges will simply have to make due without the third assistant to the vice dean in charge of diversity and lower the tuition they charge to n…

"The kind of perfect price discrimination they practice would be flatly illegal in any other industry." Sounds awfully like "value based pricing" - which is a pretty common strategy in enterprise software sales.

It doesn't sound anything like enterprise software to me. I work for a company that's pretty high up on the F500 list, and believe me, we don't let vendors charge us based on what we can afford.

Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#78

Post by tsotha »

stevencorona wrote: post #64
tsotha wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in the world would you go to a college that costs that much if you weren't rich?

Right? And if I had to make the decision now, I wouldn't do it. But when you're 18, your parents opinion carries alot of weight- and I had parents that were telling me- STEVE you absolutely cannot be successful without a degree. A degree is everything. It's everything! And as an ignorant 18 year old, I had no idea what a $175,000 loan really meant. Everyone does it, right? So it must not be that bad.

Well, I agree with your parents in that you need to get a degree. But for most jobs a degree from pretty much anywhere is fine. For technical jobs there are tons of good programs at state schools. That's just too much money.

Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#79

Post by stevencorona »

tsotha wrote: post #78
stevencorona wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? And if I had to make the decision now, I wouldn't do it. But when you're 18, your parents opinion carries alot of weight- and I had parents that were telling me- STEVE you absolutely cannot be successful without a degree. A degree is everything. It's everything! And as an ignorant 18 year old, I had no idea what a $175,000 loan really meant. Everyone does it, right? So it must not be that bad.

Well, I agree with your parents in that you need to get a degree. But for most jobs a degree from pretty much anywhere is fine. For technical jobs there are tons of good programs at state schools. That's just too much money.

Disagree. You can be wildly successful by just hustling. I am.

Re: The College-Cost Calamity

#80

Post by tsotha »

stevencorona wrote: post #79
tsotha wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I agree with your parents in that you need to get a degree. But for most jobs a degree from pretty much anywhere is fine. For technical jobs there are tons of good programs at state schools. That's just too much money.

Disagree. You can be wildly successful by just hustling. I am.

Your top end is limited unless you start your own company.
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