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I'm done with coding

neelc.org

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Re: I'm done with coding

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. He must rid himself of any remnants of Microsoft he helped build, therefore he still has a stake in MS through stock, which means he is still supporting surveillance capitalism.

Are his shares voting shares?

Shares are Shares.

Whether they are voting shares or not is irrelevant as he is still invested in the company.

As long as he is still invested in Microsoft he is still invested in surveillance capitalism, the very thing he is arguing against, and I am sure if he wants higher dividend payments, he would want the stock to go up.

Even if they are voting shares, he has no realistic meaningful power or say when a shareholder vote happens.

If I hated the company I worked with for over 10 years why would I still have shares in the company, I wouldn't want anything to do with it, this includes selling shares and wanting Microsoft's share price to go down.

Re: I'm done with coding

#72
post #19

Yeah surveillance never works, at least not in the long term. Either people like what they work on or they don't, and adding a layer of corporate hypocrisy, where you need to pretend to be excited about every single tiny change, does not help. Some products are just boring and I can't fathom how some people get excited about it. The cynic in me tells me everyone is faking it, and that is soul crushing to think about.…

But if it pays the bills such that your kids can eat for another day and that your family have a roof over their heads, wouldn't it be worth it? I don't see any other FAANG level jobs that do not do surveillance in some way or are 100% ethical, as the author wants. He said it himself, it is a "shitty job market" so surely not everyone in the job market will be paying over 6 figures and be 100% ethical with no surveil…

Have you heard of Karl Marx? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmcUcHZciFM

Re: I'm done with coding

#73

[flagged]

Calling young people stupid and idiots is a very poor way to get this point across, even if it's meant in an endearing way (which I'm suspicious of).

This cynicism is also entirely unwarranted, especially when your own personal example is, frankly, far more childish than anything in the OP. A company actively harming society through surveillance projects is a societal/ethics concern with the company essentially being a malicious actor. A company not properly securing their (presumably-internal) NFS is, at worst, a flaw/misconfiguration that was obviously not high priority.

The audacity of making some IT department's lives harder, people who are trying to tick a box, sends up so many red flags -- you can laugh about the inefficiencies in private with your mates, you can quit like the OP to find more efficient places to work, but you don't hold up other people trying to get that "god damn retirement money."

Don't compare your 20 years of technical tiffs with someone's desire to do what's right for their people.

Re: I'm done with coding

#74
post #24

What a cynical view. You can switch jobs! Nothing is going to force you to work on surveillance software! I spent nearly a decade working on Salesforce. It’s not even on my resume and you couldn’t pay me to do it!

It’s the view of someone currently hurting, disillusioned, tired and angry. It may change or it may not; but it’s a valid feeling, especially for right now.

I meant my post to positive and to show that your past doesn’t define you!

Re: I'm done with coding

#75
I've got this sentiment reading a few such goodbye letters like this. They often end by saying something like, "I quit software engineering. Because I can't make money at it, under these conditions." As if the options were work for Big Tech; work for a YC company (aka embryonic Big Tech); or be poor.

So I'm gonna say it like this, to get the vibe across:

It's pretty easy to run some Internet businesses and equal your software eng salary, as the owner of those businesses.

Not in year one, but if your goal is to hit ~40k in the first year and then scale up over a couple years, you can do it.

Also it is vastly easier if you have the capital to jump to the front of the line and skip the horrible 1 year of waiting for traffic/users to come, and just buy a business. Then you're in business from day one and can complete this more quickly and less stressfully. Elon did it with Tesla and he's now the world's richest man; learn from his example.

It's funny that this ends up being a kind of "secret knowledge" because it falls between the cracks of tech and corporate incentives. Big companies won't teach you this, because lol why would they teach you how to screw them and quit. VC's won't (exactly) teach you this, because while they are generically supportive of entrepreneurship and while it is easier to earn less money than more money (obviously), they want you to go straight for the billion dollar ideas and discourage small money thinking. Which leads to this outcome of like 100 engineers trying and only 5 making it through the gauntlet and becoming rich, rather than >90 making it if only the incentives were different.

Incidentally I recently bought a business and, after spending a lot of time in the nitty gritty "weeds" of making an Internet $10 as opposed to "zero to one" thinking, this is all coming into focus. But as I said, it's a kind of secret knowledge, which you have to piece together from YouTube, newsletters, and doing the effort - that last part of which is like 80% of the real learning. In my case I bought something and then learned on the job; fortunately the profits did not suffer.

So I'm here to tell you this is doable; it's definitely doable. If you're a software engineer of average intelligence for a software engineer, you can do it. Figuring it out isn't easy, but it's very far from impossible.

Re: I'm done with coding

#76
Clicked on this post because the domain name sounded familiar from the Tor mailing list. I knew you ran a large set of relays but didn't know you were also a pretty extensive contributor over many years! You're definitely smart and if you were able to get a job at Microsoft you're capable of getting a job at most other places, so this doesn't really have to be a permanent decision if you don't want it to be. You can work at Let's Encrypt, Tor, Signal, etc while making an impact and still doing pretty well for yourself. Anyways, in the spirit of this forum, I wish you luck with your startup.

Re: I'm done with coding

#77
I fear I am done with it as well. I am trying this AI thing and it's really good at it. So I can't motivate myself, to spend the mental energy to code it myself. But starting new tasks is very difficult for me and every new prompt feels like a new task.

In the past, when I finally managed to actually start coding I would eventually get in the zone and be productive. Now with this AI stuff, the constant back and forth, the constant waiting for the output to complete, it does prevent me from getting into the zone.

Re: I'm done with coding

#78

I've got this sentiment reading a few such goodbye letters like this. They often end by saying something like, "I quit software engineering. Because I can't make money at it, under these conditions." As if the options were work for Big Tech; work for a YC company (aka embryonic Big Tech); or be poor. So I'm gonna say it like this, to get the vibe across: It's pretty easy to run some Internet businesses and equal your…

What sort of businesses do you recommend? I’m hesitant to take on someone else’s codebase.

Re: I'm done with coding

#79
post #48
post #40

Neel, based on your linkedin, you're 27 or 28. You're a grown adult. Stop following your mom's orders. Quit your job, take some time off to decompress and recover from your clear burnout, then figure out what you want to do. Life isn't Microsoft or flipping burgers. There's a lot of things in between. You have one life, don't waste it trying to please others. But simultaneously, don't assume that your burnout is perm…

Neel, don't crawl into a hole. Use your skill. Fuck big tech. Let's use these LLMs that they think will replace us all to create browser agents that remove ads, tracking, click bait, attention stealing... heck, we could even de-engagement farm the internet. No more trolling, hate, or toxicity. If we all get personal assistants at the edge on our own pane of glass and hardware, then they have to pay us for access. Wan…

Unrelated. What happened to your anime studio?

Re: I'm done with coding

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are his shares voting shares?

Shares are Shares. Whether they are voting shares or not is irrelevant as he is still invested in the company. As long as he is still invested in Microsoft he is still invested in surveillance capitalism, the very thing he is arguing against, and I am sure if he wants higher dividend payments, he would want the stock to go up. Even if they are voting shares, he has no realistic meaningful power or say when a sharehol…

I understand your perspective. I imagine, since they're the shares he has and it would cost a lot of money to sell them all, this could be seen as another example of "No Ethical Consumption Under Capitalism".

Paying for food that Nestle makes supports their system too, for example.

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