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A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

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Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#71

Post by aithrowawaycomm »

UrineSqueegee wrote: post #17

" Duffy said the team from SpaceX went to Virginia to “get a firsthand look at the current system, learn what air traffic controllers like and dislike about their current tools, and envision how we can make a new, better, modern and safer system.”" I don't understand how anyone can be reasonably against this? They are not going to just overhaul everything overnight, they are going to upgrade the system based on ATC f…

The most serious problem is that Elon Musk is the 2nd most powerful person in the federal government, and seems to be giving cabinet officials direct orders, yet he has not divested himself of his SpaceX shares.

I don't understand how anyone can reasonably pretend this is okay. Elon Musk + the birthright citizenship order + Eric Adams means Donald Trump is by far the most corrupt president in American history.

Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#72

Post by mysterydip »

ap99 wrote: post #41
DrNosferatu wrote: post #26

From another continent, genuinely curious about Trump voters on this: - Does anyone here at HN stand for this action? - If so, do you think there's a conflict of interest? How do stand on this possible conflict?

If you just look at this part: > ...look at the current system, learn what air traffic controllers like and dislike about their current tools, and envision how we can make a new, better, modern and safer system. Do you think there is anything wrong?

Making new tools doesn't solve the understaffing issue which is the main problem. Unless they think they can make a new system which reduces the staff necessary? The only way I see of doing that is introducing some level of AI, which is a bad idea for multiple reasons.

And new systems are so few and far between because of the layers of safety and regulation testing that must be met. Though it sounds like those may be reduced in the name of efficiency.

Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#73

Post by notahacker »

jillyboel wrote: post #37
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #3

What specific expertise does SpaceX have in the air traffic control realm? What was the bidding process like? Do other regions / nations have more advanced ATC than we do, and what can we learn from them? Is there a problem statement beyond "it has some old bits"? What are the specific goals? Just feels like corruption, tbh.

> Do other regions / nations have more advanced ATC According to Trump, yes. This is what he said: > When I land in my plane, privately, I use a system from another country because...I won't tell you what country... because the captain says this system is so bad, it's so obsolete, that we can't have that. - https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2025/02/06...

I think the intro explaining that this is not true and Trump was most likely misunderstanding his pilot's comments about onboard electronics is the key bit of that article...

Fits in with the first term in which Trump baffled airline executives by assuring them that he'd help solve the problem with the airports giving them the wrong equipment[1], also based on apparently failing to understand an anecdote from his private pilot

There is actually a very long term project to modernise US ATC (less on safety grounds and more on congestion minimization grounds) it's even one in which theoretically a satellite constellation operator could have some involvement as a data provider. But but it's something of an understatement to suggest that this is unlikely to be advanced by an administration lead by someone who thinks he understands aviation based on misunderstanding his pilot and someone whose first foray into improving the FAA was to arbitrarily fire hundreds of FAA staff and whose main goal for the FAA is to deregulate space launches...

[1]https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/re...

Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#74

Post by intended »

ap99 wrote: post #41
DrNosferatu wrote: post #26

From another continent, genuinely curious about Trump voters on this: - Does anyone here at HN stand for this action? - If so, do you think there's a conflict of interest? How do stand on this possible conflict?

If you just look at this part: > ...look at the current system, learn what air traffic controllers like and dislike about their current tools, and envision how we can make a new, better, modern and safer system. Do you think there is anything wrong?

What ?

I’ve seen corrupt and broken contracts. The English is very reasonable.

People make lots of effort to make strange behavior look normal.

Hell - I know that the right sounding clause can basically buy you a full month of televised debate, where people point to the trees and miss the forest.

Why the heck does the president go to Mar A Lago ? His own hotel? And get the government to pay them ?

How the heck is it ok, for the second in command to bring his own team in?

Because it’s in America and this can’t be corruption?

American exceptionalism was built on overcoming basic mediocrity- and it would never stand for such an obvious conflict of interest.

TLDR: of course the language is going to sound good. What do people think the clauses will say ?

“Herein I take an oath that my actions are 100% corrupt?”

Obviously not.

Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#75

Post by starspangled »

aurareturn wrote: post #47
ap99 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you just look at this part: > ...look at the current system, learn what air traffic controllers like and dislike about their current tools, and envision how we can make a new, better, modern and safer system. Do you think there is anything wrong?

The process seems fine. But why SpaceX?

The tweet contained an open call for others to also collaborate. Is there any problem with SpaceX doing it or doing it first?

I have to admit I get a bit of a knee-jerk reaction about even the appearance of conflict of interest, but if money isn't changing hands then I can't see a problem really. Regulators regularly collaborate with stakeholders, so why not experts in peripheral / somewhat related fields?

And really, conflict of interest seems to not matter in the slightest in American politics, what with senators and bureaucrats and their spouses etc getting enormous grants and setting up "non-profits", there must be an enormous list of concerning conflicts worse than this.

Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#76

Post by transcriptase »

intended wrote: post #65
transcriptase wrote: post #51

[flagged]

Categorizing debate as bot farms, thus rendering engagement moot. Also with vague hand waving gestures, and a voice of authority.

There hasn’t been debate in an r/politics comment section since Obama’s first term. During election years the sub is basically run by David Brock et al.

Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#77

Post by intended »

UrineSqueegee wrote: post #17

" Duffy said the team from SpaceX went to Virginia to “get a firsthand look at the current system, learn what air traffic controllers like and dislike about their current tools, and envision how we can make a new, better, modern and safer system.”" I don't understand how anyone can be reasonably against this? They are not going to just overhaul everything overnight, they are going to upgrade the system based on ATC f…

We could call this the road to regulatory capture instead perhaps.

Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#78

Post by SirFatty »

looofooo0 wrote: post #67
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #3

What specific expertise does SpaceX have in the air traffic control realm? What was the bidding process like? Do other regions / nations have more advanced ATC than we do, and what can we learn from them? Is there a problem statement beyond "it has some old bits"? What are the specific goals? Just feels like corruption, tbh.

What specific expertise does SpaceX have in the air traffic control realm? Building software which respect to probabilistic risk analysis. This includes techniques such as abstract interpretation and theorem for for the logic of dynamical system etc. I guess spacex expertise in these realm is quite advanced and they do something useful.

So in other words, you don't really know.

Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#79

Post by soco »

ivewonyoung wrote: post #49
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #3

What specific expertise does SpaceX have in the air traffic control realm? What was the bidding process like? Do other regions / nations have more advanced ATC than we do, and what can we learn from them? Is there a problem statement beyond "it has some old bits"? What are the specific goals? Just feels like corruption, tbh.

Why is everyone assuming SpaceX is getting paid for this by the government? The article doesn't even say that SpaceX is getting paid by the govt for it, they just put it in the headline and use weasel words in the story to make people come up with assumptions that may not be true. The govt can be paying those folks directly or Musk himself can be paying them like he did for some DOGE team members.

But isn't SpaceX money coming mostly from the government anyway? So still your pockets getting emptied, only over two extra hoops which each take their share as well. All this to bring the magic solution called software engineering because we all know how software consultants always save the business.

Re: A SpaceX team is being brought in to overhaul FAA's air traffic control system

#80

Post by sidibe »

dtjb wrote: post #5

The quote from Duffy indicates that the SpaceX team doesn't have any real knowledge about or experience with the FAA systems. Seems like they're being brought in just because they're a Musk company.

While the team might not know much about FAA yet, they have high trust and a good working relationship with the guy who knows more about everything than everyone so maybe that's why this will work out great
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