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The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

microsoft.com

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Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#71

Post by latexr »

Chance-Device wrote: post #21

I think this study does not say what most people are taking it to say. > our research questions - when and how knowledge workers perceive the enaction of critical thinking when using GenAI (RQ1), and when and why do knowledge workers perceive increased/decreased effort for critical thinking due to GenAI (RQ2) This is about the application of critical thinking to AI outputs and in AI workflows. Are people cognitively…

> good enough result (…) sounds plausible

It’s paramount to not conflate the two. LLM answers are almost always the latter with no guarantee of being the former. That is a tremendous flaw with real consequences.

> it’s a general weakness in human cognition, and has little to do with AI in and of itself.

A distinction without merit. Like blaming people for addictive behaviour while simultaneously exploiting human psychology to sell them the very same addiction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJT0NMYHeGw

This “technically correct” approach to arguing where the fault lies precludes productive discussion on fixing the problem. You cannot in good faith shout from the rooftops LLMs are going to solve all our problems and then excuse its numerous failures with “but we added a note you should always verify the answer. It’s down in the cellar, with no lights and stairs, in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard’”.

It has become norm for people to “settle” disputes by quoting or showing a screenshot of an LLM answer. Often wrong. It is irrelevant to argue people should do better; they don’t, and that’s the reality you have to address.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#72

Post by Kye »

windexh8er wrote: post #70
Kye wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really has been a sight watching the loudest anti-AI people flog this around, then turn to rage when you clarify the range of the actual conclusion. Generative AI got a lot more useful when I started seeing it abstractly. I put data in, it finds correlations in its neural network, and produces different data. I have to be intentional in interpreting that data to figure out what to do with it. Once I started thinki…

> Generative AI got a lot more useful when I started seeing it abstractly. I put data in, it finds correlations in its neural network, and produces different data. I have to be intentional in interpreting that data to figure out what to do with it. In my opinion this is a mischaracterization just as you stated others have "raged" [0] about. The simple question for you is: how do you know how to interpret ? When preci…

edit: I mistook soapboxing for sincere interest in discussion. Please disregard.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#73

Post by dale_glass »

T-A wrote: post #61
dale_glass wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do with that knowledge? I mean, it's a good skill if you're actually going to apply it to something. Knowing you're facing north is great if there's some use you get out out that. Finding your way around is way more work than just "north is that way". I remember the first time I traveled internationally. Incredible stress. I had a bunch of printouts with all the details. Still, I depended completely on th…

> Sure I had a bunch of info, but one wrong decision and my static stack of papers might not be enough to get me out of it. If you knew how to read a map it would have been. I can't imagine being so dependent on a phone which can be accidentally dropped, misplaced, or simply run out of battery charge that I would be lost without it.

Paper has limited information. If you failed to acquire a map with the relevant useful information you have a problem. Not every map contains enough information for every possible need. If you planned on going by car then improvised and took a bus you might not even have bus stops marked on it.

> I can't imagine being so dependent on a phone which can be accidentally dropped, misplaced, or simply run out of battery charge that I would be lost without it.

Same way you deal with anything else: what if you have a car problem? So you plan ahead. Get the car checked before a trip, fill the tank, figure out what to do if it does break.

Phones are easier. I've got a stack of old ones that are still functional, easy to bring an extra one. I have an external battery. You can charge in many cafes and similar, just find a Starbucks or something. You can go to a shop and buy a battery or the cheapest phone they have if it comes to that.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#74

Post by windexh8er »

Kye wrote: post #72
windexh8er wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generative AI got a lot more useful when I started seeing it abstractly. I put data in, it finds correlations in its neural network, and produces different data. I have to be intentional in interpreting that data to figure out what to do with it. In my opinion this is a mischaracterization just as you stated others have "raged" [0] about. The simple question for you is: how do you know how to interpret ? When preci…

edit: I mistook soapboxing for sincere interest in discussion. Please disregard.

> What's the unique angle on this that puts it in the same genre as the worries over new technology intersecting with ancient human ills that have vexed philosophers since the introduction of writing?

So you've responded and not addressed any of the concern outlined, instead providing personal justification and musings but not engaging in the actual question. The cherry on top is your personal exchange at the end. Awesome.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#75

Post by _1tem »

I want a study on the impact of generative AI on knowledge. I fear that AI hallucinations have the potential to destroy all knowledge. For now, when an AI hallucinates, I can still check an established source to see if the fact is correct. But what happens when most established sources are themselves AI generated? There will almost be no ability to verify any fact. The very foundation of society collapses and any shared knowledge. Oh wait, that already happened with flat earthers, Covid and conspiracy theories. But AI may be the final nail in the coffin for Western civilization.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#76

Post by Kye »

windexh8er wrote: post #74
Kye wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit: I mistook soapboxing for sincere interest in discussion. Please disregard.

> What's the unique angle on this that puts it in the same genre as the worries over new technology intersecting with ancient human ills that have vexed philosophers since the introduction of writing? So you've responded and not addressed any of the concern outlined, instead providing personal justification and musings but not engaging in the actual question. The cherry on top is your personal exchange at the end. Aw…

I assumed your misread and mischaracterization wasn't with ill intent since I could have worded that better, ignored it aside from the clarifying edit, and focused on the bit that was interesting.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#77

Post by SamPatt »

greesil wrote: post #51

I have this horrible feeling that in the future people are going to walk around with AR glasses and some AI is just doing to tell people what to do all the time. They will become meat robots to do the bidding of some hallucinating model which has been finetuned with an agenda.

This is already how society works, you just aren't wearing the glasses.

Childhood education, entertainment, social networks are all constantly trying to guide our actions. Agendas are everywhere.

AI might actually be more objective or transparent, depending on how it's implemented. The key will be choice - you can either choose not to use it, or you can choose which models you prefer.

Unfortunately, most people have little choice in their society.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#78

Post by metalman »

raincole wrote: post #45
Chance-Device wrote: post #21

I think this study does not say what most people are taking it to say. > our research questions - when and how knowledge workers perceive the enaction of critical thinking when using GenAI (RQ1), and when and why do knowledge workers perceive increased/decreased effort for critical thinking due to GenAI (RQ2) This is about the application of critical thinking to AI outputs and in AI workflows. Are people cognitively…

The study is basically just... a bunch of self-reports on how people feel about AI usage in their daily job. That's it. The "critical thinking" part is completely self-reported. It's not "how good a person is at critical thinking." It's "how much a person feels they engages in critical thinking." Keyword: feels. It's like all the nutrition studies where they ask people to self-report what they eat.

There is a growing number of companys and agencies looking at banning AI, whatchamcallit, due to the increasing number of issues around eronious stuff causing liability, of the scary kind.

What is bieng passed off as journalism does nothing to give confidence in "AI" or its minders.

And behind the sceens it is easy to imagine that actual conciensous humans biengs are out competed by there "enhanced" co-workers, and just walking out to seek better compensation, or at least find work in a profesional environment, sorry, sorry, an environment that suits there "legacy" skill set.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#79

Post by SamPatt »

caseyy wrote: post #68

I agree with the study participants. Using LLMs makes me feel less capable at some cognitive tasks, but it's hard to say whether I've actually declined or if use of AI has dispelled some of the Dunning-Kruger effect for me around my own skills. For instance, LLMs are excellent at rewriting text in a specific style/tone. I used to believe I was quite good at that, but LLMs always do better. Now I no longer believe I a…

That's a great point about how using the models may actually just be revealing our own incompetence, not causing it.

Maybe it's a quantity over quality issue. What if we're actually doing more of the thing - or at least we're guiding the process - than we would have if LLMs weren't available, which enables us to become better at recognizing how LLMs are actually beneficial for the task.

I remember the story of the two groups of pottery students, one tasked with making as many pots as possible, and the other with making one perfect pot. At the end of the day, the quantity group's pots were also higher quality than the quality group's single pot, simply because they had far more practice.

I know I code more with LLMs than I did before.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#80

Post by tmnvdb »

barrell wrote: post #31
sirolimus wrote: post #18

Review code or waste time thinking and coding? I guess that's the question.

I can either spent 20 minutes arguing with an LLM to get something that maybe does most of what I want, or spend those 25 minutes to get something n that does exactly what I want. I wouldn’t call those 5 minutes times wasted

Or you could learn to use an LLM for what is it good at so that it actually saves you time (arguing with an LLM for a long time a sure sign of not having a lot of experience with this tool..)
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