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Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

cato.org

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Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#71
post #16

Just because someone wants to immigrate to the US doesn't mean they should be allowed. This is the underlying truth that is indisputable. This article says that it grants 1 million green cards per year to legal immigrants, which is extremely generous. To say it's "nearly impossible" is absurd. I myself, my wife, and 80% of my friends are all legal immigrants to the US.

> Just because someone wants to immigrate to the US doesn't mean they should be allowed. I'll bite. Why not? We let capital typically move freely. Why shouldn't people be as free to move as money?

Let's look at it at a more local level. If somebody wants to move into your house without permission, why shouldn't they be allowed to?

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because someone wants to immigrate to the US doesn't mean they should be allowed. This is the underlying truth that is indisputable. Why? Why is it indisputable? America existed very prosperously for over 200 years with such a system - the only thing we did was weed out smuggling and criminals.

That was then, this is now. A country is allowed to enforce its borders and protect its citizens from an uncontrolled influx of foreigners.

You didn't provide any analysis into why things are different now, and offered up a truism. A country is "allowed" to do anything it can get away with. Like declaring war on all of its neighbors. I don't feel like I need to be protected from foreigners. Why do you?

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because someone wants to immigrate to the US doesn't mean they should be allowed. This is the underlying truth that is indisputable. Why? Why is it indisputable? America existed very prosperously for over 200 years with such a system - the only thing we did was weed out smuggling and criminals.

That was then, this is now. A country is allowed to enforce its borders and protect its citizens from an uncontrolled influx of foreigners.

There are alternatives.

The US existed very prosperously without the current system of asylum requests, immigration judges, Green Cards or Visas, while also enforcing its borders and protecting its citizens from an uncontrolled influx of foreigners.

About 2% of the millions who arrived at Ellis Island were turned back.

Norway does not require a visa or residency permit for foreigners to live on Svalbard. "Regardless of citizenship, persons can live and work in Svalbard indefinitely." (Wikipedia.) That said, there are "Regulations relating to rejection and expulsion of persons from Svalbard". They are applied equally to all citizens.

And yes, it is possible for a foreigner to live in Svalbard, without need for a permit, and gain Norwegian citizenship.

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#74
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was then, this is now. A country is allowed to enforce its borders and protect its citizens from an uncontrolled influx of foreigners.

There are alternatives. The US existed very prosperously without the current system of asylum requests, immigration judges, Green Cards or Visas, while also enforcing its borders and protecting its citizens from an uncontrolled influx of foreigners. About 2% of the millions who arrived at Ellis Island were turned back. Norway does not require a visa or residency permit for foreigners to live on Svalbard. "Regardless…

Svalbard’s visa free status is by treaty (mostly with Russia), it is not something that Norway came up with on its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Treaty

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic we should restrict the number of children being born. But the growth of our country from a population of 50 million to 300 million did not result in a job loss of 250 million jobs. If anything, immigrants create many more jobs than they take. The deadweight to an economy is it's non-working population (retirees, children) so an influx of young, working families increases wages overall for natives.

> By that logic we should restrict the number of children being born. I disagree with this assertion. Controlling immigration is reasonable and proper when a nation state has boundaries, citizens vs non citizens, and an economic system to balance. Forcing people who want children to not have children is neither reasonable nor proper. With that said, we are in luck: the fertility rate is rapidly declining in almost ev…

Interesting how legitster's reductio ad absurdum argument got missed here. They're using the birth rate comparison not to actually advocate for birth restrictions, but to expose a flaw in the original economic reasoning.

Legitser is pointing out that every person you add to the population is not just a supplier, but also a customer. They create demand for goods and services even as they help produce them. This makes job creation/job filling calculations a bit more complicated than straight linear/zero sum behavior.

Some quick back of envelope maths suggests job growth might even outpace population growth. I suppose it would have to, else -as legitser points out- the economy would have imploded long ago.

And... we haven't even gotten around to the actual figure that matters: Net migration - People Emigrate too!

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't ask of every baby that is being born in the US how they will make the country better. But if given the option to bring in a fully grown adult, who already saves us the cost of an education, is of prime working age, and wants to be in this country, we suddenly care?

When every US citizen who wants a job in the US has one, one they can live off of with a living wage, sure, it’s up for a conversation (when legitimate labor shortages exist vs faux shortages leveraged as labor cost controls). Why am I going to support immigration that drives down wages for capital returns? Because it makes “the country” more wealthy by making a select few wealthier? Ineffective policy imho. I am nev…

Most unicorns in the US have immigrants founders. It’s extremely shortsighted to think the way you’re thinking. The immigrants are in essence the ones providing jobs for a lot of us.

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#77
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are alternatives. The US existed very prosperously without the current system of asylum requests, immigration judges, Green Cards or Visas, while also enforcing its borders and protecting its citizens from an uncontrolled influx of foreigners. About 2% of the millions who arrived at Ellis Island were turned back. Norway does not require a visa or residency permit for foreigners to live on Svalbard. "Regardless…

Svalbard’s visa free status is by treaty (mostly with Russia), it is not something that Norway came up with on its own. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Treaty

And your point is ... what? That it's not possible for the US to come up with something like that on its own?

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#78
post #4

Conclusion: "The administration should loosen all the restrictions that it has imposed above and beyond what Congress has required, and Congress should overhaul the system to open legal immigration for any person willing to work to contribute to the success of the United States." In other words, we should "promptly admit a majority of the 158 million who told Gallup that they would want to come," according to the 201…

We don't ask of every baby that is being born in the US how they will make the country better. But if given the option to bring in a fully grown adult, who already saves us the cost of an education, is of prime working age, and wants to be in this country, we suddenly care?

A society that regulates child birth is very different from one that regulates immigration.

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#79
post #4

Conclusion: "The administration should loosen all the restrictions that it has imposed above and beyond what Congress has required, and Congress should overhaul the system to open legal immigration for any person willing to work to contribute to the success of the United States." In other words, we should "promptly admit a majority of the 158 million who told Gallup that they would want to come," according to the 201…

Maybe it would be better to explain why the US would be better off with a declining population?

Because that’s the status quo if immigration were to be cut off.

On top of that, US economy depends way more deeply on undocumented or migrant labor than most people realize. Good luck getting strawberries or a new roof on your house without immigrants.

I say the US is uniquely well-adjusted to integrating immigrants compared to most other countries and should effectively make its borders open with an instant/automatic documentation process. Get immigrants and migrants out of the under the table cash economy and make them citizens or something close to it ASAP.

Of course Republicans act like immigrants are a bunch of freeloaders despite the US literally denying basic needs like healthcare to you unless your employer gives it to you. Even the most idyllic interpretation of this American Dream involves very hard work. You literally can’t survive in the US without work, the US system really doesn’t allow freeloading. There’s no such thing as dawdling around in free college forever or collecting inflated welfare checks and living large off the government’s dime in the US.

Alternatively, perhaps we should explain why immigration should be disallowed in the status quo where the occupants of America stole the land.

My ancestors stole this land from its precious inhabitants, who am I to say no one else is welcome?

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, this "impossibility" is a dishonest exaggeration with propaganda intent to loosen immigration further. In the same vein as the "shortage of engineers" ("we want cheaper payroll please") articles that circulate from time to time.

So, I agree that there isn't a big enough shortage of engineers to prompt a need for easier immigration there, but I also agree that Americans aren't as technically skilled as they should be compared to foreigners.

Those are two very big buckets to compare.

Frankly when it comes to skilled immigration, it make sense to, above a certain skill threshold, have basically an open border.

For instance, if you had a bona fide airtight screening test for Einstein tier people, why would you ever not let them freely walk in?

Even the most hardline right wingers aren't going to complain about a few thousand geniuses a year.

But where that threshold should be and what the integrity of the screening process is are other questions.

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