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JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#71
post #19

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I believe they are heavily reusing the non-UI part of Intellij and the like, so it's not really 2x the development.

Usually Intellij products are slow and fleet does not seem to be slow, so it is feels likely a lot of code was rewritten to make it fast.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#72

Personal opinion is that JetBrains products have gone down hill the last few years. Tons of memory leaks and performance issues. They are also way behind on the AI front, borderline obsolete in some areas. This is coming from someone who has used jetbrains daily for over a decade

Hard disagree. Pycharm, Datagrip, and Rider are absolutely top notch applications. And I would vastly prefer that they focus on robust IDE features than yet another bunch of "Now with AI" crap duct taped to their products.

Most of the young crowd is very biased towards vs code irrespective of the top notch features which intellij is providing, so to win the game against vs code fleet becomes critical.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#73

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

I feel similarly about IntelliJ IDEs as someone primarily coming from Xcode.

Xcode has its own share of weaknesses, don’t get me wrong. It’s just that I’m irritated more frequently by quirks of IntelliJ IDEs like how the sidebar palettes work in a way that they’re constantly at battle with each other and how super simple considerations like per-editor-pane back/forward/history are missing. They sometimes feel like they trip over the basics in pursuit of fancy gizmos.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#74
I wish Jet brains would give AI features for free for some time, Github co pilot will be incompatible with fleet for some time and even with other legacy jetbrain IDEs like webstorm / pycharm it does not work very well. They always release features for vs code first and then webstorm follows.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#75

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

In my opinion it seems like an experimental competitor to VS Code while also giving them a way to dog food new Java-based UI frameworks (KMP, Compose).

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#76

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

My only problem with jetbrains UI is that it's slow. Night and day difference using even vscode, let alone vim, sublime, helix, zed, etc. I tolerate it because the functionality it brings, but I find myself actually writing code in something faster. And I don't see fleet improving on this in a meaningful way - it's basically a competitor to vscode, which I don't use for the same reasons I won't use fleet.

There is a whole nother discussion about "progressive discovery" of functionality which I think is actually wrong although that would be a fringe view among "UX" specialists.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#77

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

My main barrier to IDEA is actually performance. Despite people's complaints about electron apps, VSCode is viscerally snappier in all the little interactions. I tried to switch to IDEA for the powerful features, but it always felt like mud

I haven't tried Fleet but that could be part of it

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#78

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

> Many of my colleagues try them out for an hour or two and then jump ship back to VSCode just because the initial "wtf is going on" factor is so high =/

Really?

I mean, the UIs are basically the same now. I have them open side by side on my desktop right now and they're both:

- black boxes with a panel on the left of icons, then a tree of files, then a tabbed pane of open files.

- clicking on the icons on the left opens some obscure subwindow depending on you magically knowing what the icon means.

The only meaningful difference is that in vscode there's a command palette at the top where you can type in random stuff and get a list of actions, and in intellij you have to 'know' that the shortcut for that is 'press shift 3 times' instead of 'shift control p'

...but I mean, thats it; they're otherwise pretty much identical, practically.

Honestly, anyone who opens intellij and then goes back to vscode because its too different is a numpty.

Things work differently, and people don't like different things, and if they go back because it was different or the shortcuts are different, that's fair. It is disruptive.

...but, because the 'wtf is going on' factor is too high? Realllllllly? What does that even mean?

Come on. They're not that different. If clicking on 'run' on the top right instead of on the left bar is too 'wtf', you really haven't made a real effort to try using the other IDE.

(The same goes for old school intellij users who try vscode and then run away. Give it a decent shot before you walk away because it's too hard if the only hard thing is your keyboard shortcut muscle memory... vscode is pretty great)

You only really see the deep differences when you use them extensively for things like refactoring and debugging.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

My main barrier to IDEA is actually performance. Despite people's complaints about electron apps, VSCode is viscerally snappier in all the little interactions. I tried to switch to IDEA for the powerful features, but it always felt like mud I haven't tried Fleet but that could be part of it

I thought fleet would be that snappy alternative, but then, in a fit of insanity, they decided to outsource all the actual non-render logic to the IDEA engine, and the whole thing was dead on arrival for me.

Now I use Zed, which seems to be what Fleet should have been.

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