Live data from Hacker News

Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

jacek.zlydach.pl

71–80 of 286 posts

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#72
post #58

In a world of finite attention, some form of advertising will inevitable appear. Unless your critique of advertising includes a solution to the attention problem, it's not useful. Then you might say, well there should be some regulations that prevent advertisers from doing X bad thing or saying Y exaggerated statement. Most of these exist already, and if they don't, the legislation required to ban such practices woul…

Just like you can demand that corporations provide correct product information on the packaging, you can easily demand that they only communicate in that way around their products. The difference between advertising and product information is that the former is deceitful.

Communicate in what way? And at what point are you going to differentiate between "art" and "not art"?

These are rhetorical questions, because their implementation is a pipe dream. Getting rid of "advertising" would require the most draconian anti-speech laws imaginable.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#73

Would seeing this on HN count as advertisement? I also see HN Jobs that I did not ask for, would this also count as advertisements / marketing? How would say, Daring Fireball [1] earn income from this cancerous mode of operation? Should this publication stop charging $11K a week to stop shilling products we don't need in your RSS feed? So then it follows that all of these are 'cancer' by the author's definition. How…

> The only way to stop this would probably be to "close your eyes?" or perhaps this isn't really a big enough problem in the first place. The idea of banning advertisements never struck you? That seems like the obvious way forward.

88x31 banners (ads) on Neocities, or artists I follow mentioning they have new merch (ads), or HN (website whose sole purpose is to let people advertise), don't bother me enough to ban them.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#74

I think the list of reasons sounds a lot like just typical facets of 'capitalism'.

I would rather live with ads than with literal bread lines my family stood in decades ago, in a socialist state (that funnily had more govt propaganda than ads).

Very odd dichotomy. Did you never consider living in a world that has no bread lines nor advertisements? That seems like the one most would choose. In this country, we have both bread lines AND advertisements!

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#76
I completely agree, though I haven't been thinking in terms of the cancer metaphor myself. I have been thinking a bit about how we could limit the negative effects of both advertising and other phenomena like social media algorithms:

1. Almost all advertising is based on manipulation of human cognitive biases. There is a limited set of biases, and the mechanisms by which they can be exploited are both limited and easily detected – we can most likely train AI to do it. Therefore, it's possible to start thinking seriously about making laws that ban corporations and organisations from creating marketing that exploits these cognitive biases.

2. When it comes to social media platforms, there are two routes we could go down. Either we could regulate their algorithms the same way – or we could force social media platforms to both make their recommendation algorithms open source, and to open up their platforms to third-party recommendation algorithms that people can choose to use instead. This would be like a recommendation algorithm app store that the company has to provide to their users. You might want to select a youtube recommendation algorithm that optimises for personal development – or a facebook feed that optimises for creating real-world connections

Of course corporations would fight this kind of legislation with tooth and claw, but that's how it is. I would be happy to get some thoughtful feedback on these ideas, their technical and legal plausibility, and any potential negative unintended consequences or loopholes that could undermine them

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#77
post #42

Would seeing this on HN count as advertisement? I also see HN Jobs that I did not ask for, would this also count as advertisements / marketing? How would say, Daring Fireball [1] earn income from this cancerous mode of operation? Should this publication stop charging $11K a week to stop shilling products we don't need in your RSS feed? So then it follows that all of these are 'cancer' by the author's definition. How…

> Solutions to this would be much welcome. Most forums such as this have a 'mute' button so you can choose not to see certain topics and posts by certain people. Not sure why HN doesnt have this, but it solves your 'problem' of forum posts being 'advertising' whilst at the same time explaining the difference between the two, choice. EDIT: Oh I see youve edited your post. I wont be changing mine to address your new po…

To be fair I didn't see your reply but to answer your original point.

It would be great for HN to not only "hide" the jobs all the time but an account level "hide ads" or "hide YC ads" function in the account so that I don't have to see the woven job ads on the site that act like HN posts.

This shouldn't be limited to forums, but should also be extended to other sites.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#78
post #27

This analogy seems weak. In general, this post argues one way while ignoring all the good advertising does. Do cancers typically do good things at their baseline?

> while ignoring all the good advertising does. What good?

Informing potential customers of products that might be useful to them.

Let's say you are the inventor of the chainsaw, you need to tell lumberjacks that chainsaws exist, that's advertising. Otherwise you won't sell any and your invention will be lost, while lumberjacks will continue struggling with inefficient tools.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society (2019)

#80
post #26

This analogy seems weak. In general, this post argues one way while ignoring all the good advertising does. Do cancers typically do good things at their baseline?

"all the good things advertising does" is doing a lot of the leg work without much being specified.

I put on plays. Some people would enjoy seeing them. I can only do four or five performances so I can't wait for people to rave to their friends about it.

I put up polite, attractive, informative ads in forums that I think will have people who might come to my shows. Not everyone will; the large majority won't. But some of these are web sites that talk about theater, where my ad spend pays for the site itself to exist.

I recognize that the ads we most notice are nothing like that. But the idea that all ads are automatically a bad thing misses out on the fact that the original purpose of ads, as cited in the article, does still exist. If you waved a magic wand and got rid of ads my theater probably wouldn't exist. No big loss, I suppose, but the world is very slightly poorer for it.

Post reply on HN