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Mac(OS)talgia

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Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#71

Post by bitwize »

KerrAvon wrote: post #51
ryandrake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SIP is quite terrible. Requiring an access level higher than root to access system files, and only processes that are signed by Apple and have special entitlements can have that access level? It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions totem pole, not Apple. If they're dead set on using signing to enforce the higher-than-root level, then I should be the one signing the executables. Fortunately, you ca…

Genuinely curious, what are you doing that requires you to turn SIP off? I'd have thought only OS developers and maybe forensics people of various stripes need to do that.

It's the principle of the thing! This aggression will not stand, man!

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#72

Post by frizlab »

goosedragons wrote: post #60
xp84 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still remember in the late oughts, when Mac software updates came out (say, 10.x.1 or whatever, Safari updates, etc.) an app called Software Update would tell you about them, allow you to click to download and install what you wanted, the installation all happened in the background while you worked, and then at the end the SWU dock icon would bounce to prompt you to restart when ready. Guess what? quick option-righ…

Modern macOS updates take forever too. I had one clocked at 40 minutes! In that time I could reinstall Ubuntu 4x over.

On what computer? Actual modern macOS updates takes some initial time indeed, but in the background! The reboot phase is not very long.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#73

Post by lmz »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #69
lmz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know a lot of people hate global menubars but I’ve always loved them and it kills me that they’re not a practical option on the Linux desktop, despite ultimate customizability being one of the most frequently-cited reasons to use Linux as a desktop OS. Isn't that the point? It's so customizable that app writers opt out of menubars. And the system menubar has no power over the apps.

I meant customizability for the end user , which in my opinion should rarely if ever be compromised by app devs. As for the global menubar, it doesn’t need to wield any power over third party apps… it’s just there to display a list of menus provided by the front most app, and there’s not really a good reason for apps to not provide that even if their devs don’t want a menubar within the app’s window.

If you can't code your own are you really the intended user of the customizable Linux desktop? /s

But if there's no standard for it supported by at least Qt and GTK+ then you can't expect it to "just work". Even then you'd get the apps that use some other toolkit that doesn't work.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#74

Post by goosedragons »

frizlab wrote: post #72
goosedragons wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern macOS updates take forever too. I had one clocked at 40 minutes! In that time I could reinstall Ubuntu 4x over.

On what computer? Actual modern macOS updates takes some initial time indeed, but in the background ! The reboot phase is not very long.

2018 MBP.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#75

Post by frizlab »

goosedragons wrote: post #74
frizlab wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what computer? Actual modern macOS updates takes some initial time indeed, but in the background ! The reboot phase is not very long.

2018 MBP.

Ha yeah, IIRC macOS updates on Intel are slower (and not only because of the processor and/or disk, but because of the whole architecture).

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#76

Post by Jyaif »

feketegy wrote: post #16
cameldrv wrote: post #15

I get the nostalgia, but boy are computers so much better than back then. MacOS 7-8 (not sure about 9, never used it) would crash constantly. There was no protected memory, so as soon as one app started misbehaving, you'd have to reboot the computer and it would take forever and you'd lose your work. My recollection was that this would typically happen 3-4 times a day. Apple's project to make a new MacOS that didn't…

OS X Lion was the most stable operating system I've ever used. Tbh, it's all downhill from there, every new release gets a little worse not to mention all the hardware issues too.

you are supposed to say it's snow leopard

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#77

Post by favorited »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #53
favorited wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions totem pole, not Apple Here are the instructions to enable logging in as root, since privilege escalation seems inconvenient for you: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102367

This does not allow you to modify SIP-protected files.

Of course it doesn't, SIP would be pointless if it did. But since GP is so opposed to temporarily disabling SIP when they need escalated permissions, I assume they must feel the same way about needing to `sudo` and enter their password.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#78

Post by xp84 »

frizlab wrote: post #72
goosedragons wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern macOS updates take forever too. I had one clocked at 40 minutes! In that time I could reinstall Ubuntu 4x over.

On what computer? Actual modern macOS updates takes some initial time indeed, but in the background ! The reboot phase is not very long.

As far as I can tell, the updates that require a reboot don't do anything in the background now (prior to the reboot), besides downloading.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#79

Post by musicale »

cameldrv wrote: post #15

I get the nostalgia, but boy are computers so much better than back then. MacOS 7-8 (not sure about 9, never used it) would crash constantly. There was no protected memory, so as soon as one app started misbehaving, you'd have to reboot the computer and it would take forever and you'd lose your work. My recollection was that this would typically happen 3-4 times a day. Apple's project to make a new MacOS that didn't…

Most popular PC operating systems (CP/M, DOS, Mac, ...) from the 1980s to the early 1990s didn't have memory protection, yet people used them and still use them.

George RR Martin famously wrote on WordStar for DOS (a rewrite of the CP/M version) until at least 2014.

Turbo Pascal didn't have memory protection, but people still loved it and compare it favorably to modern IDEs. Both Turbo Pascal (DOS and CP/M) and Think C (Mac) have featured on HN repeatedly iirc.

As I understand it, Apple's Lisa had memory protection, but the Mac gave it up to reduce hardware and memory requirements. Apple's Pascal compilers (like many) supported range checking, but developers turned it off, giving up reliability for performance and code size. Then they switched to C, which laughs at memory safety* and introduced null pointers that conveniently pointed to Mac OS data in low memory/writable RAM (perhaps a hangover from Apple II/6502 programming.)

It's almost like CPU designers going for performance at any cost and introducing isolation and security flaws.

* Prof. Kernighan might point out that there are ANSI C compilers that are memory safe and that nobody uses, and that clang/LLVM might even implement a safe memory model someday

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#80

Post by musicale »

_0xdd wrote: post #64

Honestly, I sometimes feel like I got work done more efficiently on my 1024x768 displays in that era than I do with my 4K+ monitors now. Modern UIs are bewildering at times. I miss the days where Photoshop and Office had toolbars separate from the open document windows. Things just seemed so much more discoverable and made more efficient use of space.

> Things just seemed so much more discoverable and made more efficient use of space

Apple (and Microsoft for that matter) had solid user interface guidelines in that era.

And real desktop apps (using the native system UI) rather than clunky web apps (each with its own non-native UI.)

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