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On DeepSeek and export controls

darioamodei.com

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Re: On DeepSeek and export controls

#71

Post by rcarmo »

highfrequency wrote: post #55
rcarmo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read enough history books (and have a passable grasp of German, and tolerate the weird lead types used in the press for those days) you will be able to find _a lot_ of opinion pieces from our recent history that play along the same lines, but for earlier industries (like automotive). People _really_ ought to study more of our past.

Links and book recs are great - sounds like a helpful perspective

Not all of it is digitized. I happened to spend a few weeks in Germany once and had access to a library in Dusseldorf.

Re: On DeepSeek and export controls

#72

Post by swarnie »

breakitmakeit wrote: post #49
k1m wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Chinese companies shouldn't have chips because their government has "committed human rights violations, has behaved aggressively on the world stage". And the US government hasn't?

[flagged]

To be fair you should have socialised healthcare 70 years ago like the rest of the civilised world.

Re: On DeepSeek and export controls

#73

Post by rcarmo »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #69
rcarmo wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Year 2? We're almost there at _month_ 2.

Oh, people are thinking it now for sure, but it takes a while to retool your relationships and build out a new trade network so you can safely tell a major trading partner to fuck themselves to threats of 100% tariffs.

Well, the British did it to Europe, so I'm pretty sure Europe can emulate their winning strategy :)

Re: On DeepSeek and export controls

#74

Post by Fernicia »

k1m wrote: post #44
throwaway_32u10 wrote: post #20

I'm kind of tired of the entire narrative that "US good, everyone else bad", as if only US deserves to hold powerful technology because it will be used for "the greater good", rather than employ it in military applications, as if Anthropic didn't partner with Palantir. And it amazes me how many people can't seem to see past the "US is good, everyone else are bad" smoke mirror.

Absolutely. Chinese companies shouldn't have chips because their government has "committed human rights violations, has behaved aggressively on the world stage". And the US government hasn't?

To say the two are remotely comparable is either insincere or naive. Like I'm not saying the US always acts utterly virtuously, but they aren't running concentration camps and chemically castrating entire ethic groups.

They also aren't imprisoning people for speech, which is important when we're discussing who we want controlling AI in the future.

Re: On DeepSeek and export controls

#75

Post by _t9ow »

suraci wrote: post #5

> Thus, in this world, the US and its allies might take a commanding and long-lasting lead on the global stage. This is just like Captain America giving a pre-battle speech to the Avengers—it's so inspiring! Hail Hydra!

> the US and its allies

What allies? Is he aware that his current President is alienating and antagonising almost every single country out there that can historically be considered an ally?

Re: On DeepSeek and export controls

#78

Post by codekilla »

The author seems to be of the opinion that the creators of DeepSeek will either be unable to, or will not see the value of optimizing the 'second stage' RL component of the 'new' (post pre-training RL) way of training frontier foundation models. Every competent programmer in China is now looking for low level ptx optimizations for EVERY SINGLE STAGE of the pipeline. They will now, likely not publish any of it.

Re: On DeepSeek and export controls

#79

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

throwaway_32u10 wrote: post #20

I'm kind of tired of the entire narrative that "US good, everyone else bad", as if only US deserves to hold powerful technology because it will be used for "the greater good", rather than employ it in military applications, as if Anthropic didn't partner with Palantir. And it amazes me how many people can't seem to see past the "US is good, everyone else are bad" smoke mirror.

[flagged]

Re: On DeepSeek and export controls

#80

Post by danielpeach »

Fernicia wrote: post #74
k1m wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Chinese companies shouldn't have chips because their government has "committed human rights violations, has behaved aggressively on the world stage". And the US government hasn't?

To say the two are remotely comparable is either insincere or naive. Like I'm not saying the US always acts utterly virtuously, but they aren't running concentration camps and chemically castrating entire ethic groups. They also aren't imprisoning people for speech, which is important when we're discussing who we want controlling AI in the future.

Do you remember when the US lied to everyone about WMDs and then caused the deaths of at least 100k Iraqi civilians?
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