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Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

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Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#71

Post by 542354234235 »

ryandvm wrote: post #64
542354234235 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a non-smoker’s right not to breath in smoke not included in your calculation? Why is it only the smoker (well the smoker in a very narrow and specific case) that is being “pushed” now and not the non-smokers having been pushed for decades? The closer you live to others, the more your individual actions can and do affect others. The ‘my liberty ends where yours begins' concept. Of course there is no perfect uni…

The idea that outdoor smokers are impinging on your right to breathe is a bit of a stretch. You can breathe just fine and there is no evidence that catching the stray odor of a cigarette has any impact at all on your health. These people are sucking this smoke directly into their lungs all day for years on end and only a minority of them will ever actually develop cancer and you're going to act like you can't breathe…

This comment chain is about smoking indoors in apartment buildings and more broadly the general rights of smoker's vs non-smokers in a historical sense. To pretend that my comment was in any way about being outdoors and occasionally smelling a whiff of cigarette smoke is either ignorant or malicious, just so you could pretend to be making some gotcha counterpoint.

Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#72

Post by ghusto »

ryandvm wrote: post #64
542354234235 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a non-smoker’s right not to breath in smoke not included in your calculation? Why is it only the smoker (well the smoker in a very narrow and specific case) that is being “pushed” now and not the non-smokers having been pushed for decades? The closer you live to others, the more your individual actions can and do affect others. The ‘my liberty ends where yours begins' concept. Of course there is no perfect uni…

The idea that outdoor smokers are impinging on your right to breathe is a bit of a stretch. You can breathe just fine and there is no evidence that catching the stray odor of a cigarette has any impact at all on your health. These people are sucking this smoke directly into their lungs all day for years on end and only a minority of them will ever actually develop cancer and you're going to act like you can't breathe…

> The idea that outdoor smokers are impinging on your right to breathe is a bit of a stretch

I’m sitting out on a terrace and you’re smoking next to me. I have to either move inside the cafe, or leave. This isn’t a hypothetical, it’s what I face every time I go out. So no it’s not a stretch.

The majority of society would rather you don’t smoke. You live in that society, so choices are to either stop smoking, or continue because what you want is more important (aka being a dick).

Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#73

Post by portaouflop »

lolinder wrote: post #41
portaouflop wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is really completely harmless if you think about it - but I agree that weed is more dangerous than it’s made out to be often. I think the same applies to every socially accepted drug, such as coffee, alcohol, ibuprofen etc

Yeah, "nothing is really completely harmless" is used to justify all kinds of harm. Nothing is completely harmless, but some things are more harmful than others, and at least with adolescents weed isn't even in the same ballpark as coffee or ibuprofen.

I never said it’s in the same ballpark, i literally agreed with you but feel free to apply any kind of bad faith logic to what I wrote

Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#74

Post by portaouflop »

skyyler wrote: post #58
portaouflop wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to do but if you would be in a locked room with a bunch of lit joints going around you probably can get moderately passively stoned.

That's a bit different than the public nuisance claims. I suppose you'd want to avoid a cannabis sauna if you want to avoid getting passively stoned.

Yea I wrote it more to illustrate that the “getting passively stoned from smoke on the street” argument is kinda ridiculous

Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#75

Post by bko »

portaouflop wrote: post #18
bko wrote: post #3

The cultural shift against smoking cigarettes over the last 2 decades has been fun to watch. Ironically, at the same time there has been an acceptance of smoking weed. You get dirtier looks and more likely to be harassed smoking a cigarette than you would smoking weed, regardless of place and time of day. Not that one is better than the other per-se. But I just find it baffling how acceptable it is to see someone pub…

I think the same when I see people chugging a fat black coffee the moment they wake up. I wouldn’t be able to focus at all, constant jitters - how can these people all work effectively while being strung out on caffeine? The answer is it’s all about tolerance and what drugs are social acceptable. The guy who smokes all day just gets back to baseline with his first joint in the day, he’s not actually high as you would…

I think it's sad that's all.

I don't think weed and caffeine are equivalent. One is a downer and the other a stimulant. You might get jitters with too much caffeine but that's not the same as being baked productivity wise. Sure you don't have to be productive 24/7 but chances are if you're lit at 7am, you're not being productive even when you sober up, and you'll just keep smoking.

In regards to "functional potheads", I've met a few in my life and without exception they greatly overstate their ability to function. Almost all addicts claim they're functional. Plus it can lead to psychological effects.

I think you should be able to put most things in your body. But I can still have an opinion whether it's good for you or society if people engage in this behavior. Not everything I think is bad should have a law against it.

Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#76

Post by addicted »

portaouflop wrote: post #18
bko wrote: post #3

The cultural shift against smoking cigarettes over the last 2 decades has been fun to watch. Ironically, at the same time there has been an acceptance of smoking weed. You get dirtier looks and more likely to be harassed smoking a cigarette than you would smoking weed, regardless of place and time of day. Not that one is better than the other per-se. But I just find it baffling how acceptable it is to see someone pub…

I think the same when I see people chugging a fat black coffee the moment they wake up. I wouldn’t be able to focus at all, constant jitters - how can these people all work effectively while being strung out on caffeine? The answer is it’s all about tolerance and what drugs are social acceptable. The guy who smokes all day just gets back to baseline with his first joint in the day, he’s not actually high as you would…

Most people don’t get jitters when drinking coffee?

I can’t drink coffee because the caffeine affects me terribly but that’s not true for most people.

Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#77

Post by throwaway1625 »

ryandvm wrote: post #64
542354234235 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a non-smoker’s right not to breath in smoke not included in your calculation? Why is it only the smoker (well the smoker in a very narrow and specific case) that is being “pushed” now and not the non-smokers having been pushed for decades? The closer you live to others, the more your individual actions can and do affect others. The ‘my liberty ends where yours begins' concept. Of course there is no perfect uni…

The idea that outdoor smokers are impinging on your right to breathe is a bit of a stretch. You can breathe just fine and there is no evidence that catching the stray odor of a cigarette has any impact at all on your health. These people are sucking this smoke directly into their lungs all day for years on end and only a minority of them will ever actually develop cancer and you're going to act like you can't breathe…

[dead]

Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#78

Post by lolinder »

portaouflop wrote: post #73
lolinder wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "nothing is really completely harmless" is used to justify all kinds of harm. Nothing is completely harmless, but some things are more harmful than others, and at least with adolescents weed isn't even in the same ballpark as coffee or ibuprofen.

I never said it’s in the same ballpark, i literally agreed with you but feel free to apply any kind of bad faith logic to what I wrote

I wasn't even necessarily talking about your perspective specifically and didn't mean this to get at all personal. Sorry it came off that way.

Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#79

Post by 93po »

bko wrote: post #75
portaouflop wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same when I see people chugging a fat black coffee the moment they wake up. I wouldn’t be able to focus at all, constant jitters - how can these people all work effectively while being strung out on caffeine? The answer is it’s all about tolerance and what drugs are social acceptable. The guy who smokes all day just gets back to baseline with his first joint in the day, he’s not actually high as you would…

I think it's sad that's all. I don't think weed and caffeine are equivalent. One is a downer and the other a stimulant. You might get jitters with too much caffeine but that's not the same as being baked productivity wise. Sure you don't have to be productive 24/7 but chances are if you're lit at 7am, you're not being productive even when you sober up, and you'll just keep smoking. In regards to "functional potheads"…

I've met some functional potheads and I legitimately cannot tell when they're high, even after they smoke a lot. Their tolerance is so unbelievably high that smoking does very little to them. They manage to function in life because they're typically not-really-that-high along with having careers that are just not cognitively difficult, at all. One does sort of data entry stuff, stuff they've done for years without much change in their work. They also do sort of simple wix website development stuff. I know another that just works the floors at Target.

Re: Osaka bans smoking on all of its streets, vaping included

#80

Post by 93po »

krispyfi wrote: post #59

Here, "vaping" is a mistranslation. The law actually refers to 加熱式たばこ, or "heated tobacco products" (HTP), which contain tobacco leaf just like regular cigarettes, but don't combust. On the other hand, nicotine vapes are classified as medical devices and have never been approved for sale, but technically individuals can import them. The evidence for HTPs being healthier than cigarettes is thin. I believe that overreg…

If it's not fully combusting the leaves, it seems like it must be massively healthier. Not healthy, of course, but better.
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