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It's not a crime if we do it with an app

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Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#71

Post by Ekaros »

Lord_Zero wrote: post #5
andrewfromx wrote: post #2

but would Airbnb or Uber exist if they tried to get permission first? Netflix streaming was illegal at first. Youtube for sure. Napster. Tesla (no dealerships it was direct sales to consumers.) Even craigslist or ebay or the very first Ford Model T. They break rules because that's the only way to test the waters and see if the public wants the rule broken?

There's definitely a balance between innovation and cancer. AirBnB started off great but now it's a cancer. Housing supply is at a massive shortage and Airbnbs eat up what little remains. 2 houses on my tiny street (which are all starter homes are Airbnb). Uber started off great but quickly became incredibly expensive thanks to surge time and increased costs.

Uber started wrong from the beginning. They were dumping their service. And not charging full cost. That is price that goes to driver and the R&D and marketing after say 1 year.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#72

Post by cpill »

djoldman wrote: post #16

It appears that the crux of the article is that a lot of price fixing is going on through the use of programs that suggest or encourage pricing among a few players, to the advantage of all the players and the disadvantage of the customer. Crackdowns do take time in the US but there is hope. See e.g.: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-realp...

The New Deal, which Bernie was resurrecting, was meant to break monopolies up, to promote completion and make price fixing impossible. the democrats voted against that as they are controlled by the big companies too. this is easy MAGA exists, and won.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#73

Post by photonthug »

The app crime angle for uber/airbnb is a now familiar topic that gets heated and still draws a variety of different kinds of opinions. Landlord price cabals enabled by apps have started to get press.. this surprises almost no one and makes everyone angry.

Price fixing, consolidation, and greedflation in food sources though does not seem to get much press. I think the revelation would be extremely surprising, scary, and absolutely infuriating to most people.

What is really striking here is how the tired old “vote with your wallet!” advice won’t even work for potatoes anymore. And yet the staunch defenders of business-as-usual capitalism still insist nothing has changed, that we only need to “use our agency!” to effectively fight against whatever kinds of abusive corporate bullshit is getting normalized this week. That’s not just a tired rhetorical trick to win points in an argument or to blame the victim, it’s becoming very transparently absurd.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#74

Post by 9rx »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #39
closewith wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A growth strategy, not an unintended consequence. Early YouTube without copyright infringement would have died in obscurity.

Were you even on YouTube back then? It went viral for all kinds of viral home videos.

YouTube lived in obscurity until it became the top search result for “Lazy Sunday”.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#75

Post by 9283409232 »

method_capital wrote: post #36
Eextra953 wrote: post #23

Does anybody know whats stopping ethical and slightly less greedy companies from outcompeting these conglomerates? Its a question I keep coming back to because if the market were efficient then competitors should be able to use that same data to undercut big potato (or big whatever). This never seems to happen.

The answer is: nothing. The whole argument is predicated on a political conviction, not an economic reality.

This is naive and wrong. An example of this is Google Fiber and ironically Tesla. When Google Fiber came out, ISPs lobbied to sue Google and local governments to prevent Fiber from being available in their areas instead of competing. When Tesla tried to sell direct to consumer, dealerships sued to prevent it. Entrenched companies will always use the system to prevent competition. Regulatory capture is a term for a reason.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#76

Post by gmueckl »

This is all a result of a lack of active market regulation. The government needs to step in actively to keep a free market from collapsing into one of the natural end states. But the US has consistently been far too passive and accepts greedy companies far too readily.

If a single company can sell almost 100% of an essential good, they need to atomatically lose the power to set their prices and margins independently. Let them go through a cumbersome govenment approval process for price changes or something to cap margins. Price fixing cartels need to be busted more aggressively.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#77

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

ryandrake wrote: post #17

More like "It's not a crime if a corporation does it." The US treats corporations with kid gloves. They get away with so much, and in those rare cases where a regulatory body does anything , it's often just a strongly worded letter, a warning, a threat to one day send a strongly worded letter, or, in really rare, extreme cases, a company official gets called in to say a few words in front of Congress. Nobody goes to…

We need to start seizing IP into the public domain and sending shareholders to jail when their companies misbehave. I'm on the hook if my dog bites somebody, it should be no different if the role of my dog is played by a company.

Monetary risk is not a real enough risk.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#78

Post by benreesman »

cute_boi wrote: post #21

Unchecked capitalism is harmful. It seems like the Trump administration will exacerbate the issue. Biden had an opportunity to address it, but he failed to act. In the end, we’re left being governed by crooks.

I think it comes down to how one defines capitalism. Markets are an excellent default for pricing things and thereby allocating resources and effort. Markets are also almost impossible to really get rid of: if one attempts to completely eliminate market activity you usually end up with a “black” market.

But markets experience market failures: this might be in the form of monopoly or monopsony pricing power, it might be in the form of lobbyism or other institutionalized corruption, it might be in the form of outright lawbreaking or other even more direct coercion.

Capitalism-like systems only serve the populations that live in them when they are honestly and competently referred: they only work when market failures are addressed with vigor.

We’ve sailed so far past this type of state that the government is now actively aiding and abetting cartels and oligarchs in their efforts to induce market failures.

That ends with some kind of internal or external war, hence the bunkers and islands and spaceships and shit.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#79

Post by dijit »

Ekaros wrote: post #47
hermannj314 wrote: post #32

This is the way our world works. If you steal a potato, you will be arrested immediately and the case will be resolved in a few weeks or months. If you illegally fix the price of potatoes and steal billions from the market, you will be allowed to operate for years in the open while a lengthy civil procedure eventually may ask you to give 1 or 2% of what you stole back in fines. Don't blame the potato theives or potat…

Let's be honest hear. If you go to store and steal sack of potato. I doubt either the store or police will even attempt to track you anymore... Retail theft is just left to happen.

Not really, theres a handful of selective enforcement; but as far as crimes go they are prosecuted much more frequently as a percentage of total of infractions than something like price fixing.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#80

Post by amazingamazing »

ryandrake wrote: post #17

More like "It's not a crime if a corporation does it." The US treats corporations with kid gloves. They get away with so much, and in those rare cases where a regulatory body does anything , it's often just a strongly worded letter, a warning, a threat to one day send a strongly worded letter, or, in really rare, extreme cases, a company official gets called in to say a few words in front of Congress. Nobody goes to…

i find this comment strange. limited liability is by design
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