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Garmin's –$40B Pivot

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Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#71
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultra has better battery life, most people don’t wear a watch while sleeping, so it’s easy to charge at night like you do with a phone anyway. It also enables you to do almost everything essential in terms of communication without a phone if you want to leave it. Garmin watches do not.

> most people don’t wear a watch while sleeping Eh, what? When watches were just watches, most everyone wore there watch while sleeping. On that note, my brother and I were talking about these smart watches the other day and I expressed how having a gshock is nice because with my use I seem to get about 7 years of battery life, so my watch is always on. Whereas people with smart watches has (as he put it) significant…

What do you mean it performs poorly as a watch? Smartwatches sync time, change time zone as you travel, automatically apply DST. It's actually better watch than classic watch.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#73
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People value things differently but the battery life is always interesting to me. Certainly if I was backwoods hiking I get it but for my day to day I only take it off post workout in the morning as I shower and get ready for the day. It’s charged so quickly that I throw it back on as soon as I am done.

It sounds like you have a good routine, but it's pretty nice to just have to charge once a week or something

Yeah but we can always just shift that goalpost of a tradeoff and act like our arbitrary choice is the only right way.

You need to charge that every week? Well this one lasts two weeks. Only two weeks, what a drag, this one lasts a month.

You need to actually charge it? A Citizen Eco Drive charges itself even with only indoor light. Or an automatic watch that self winds on regular wrist movements, never really needing a "charge" so long as you're actively wearing it.

It's all a trade off of what kind of features you want on your "watch". I'm not taking phone calls and doing NFC payments on an Eco Drive. People are going to value different things, to many charging a few minutes every day isn't an issue for what they seem to get from it.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can just leave my phone at home when I’m running or in the gym and get phone calls, send messages, and stream music from my watch. I have a stand by my bed that I just plop my phone, watch and AirPods on and they all charge wirelessly and use MagSafe so I don’t have to worry about placement.

If you have to charge overnight, you miss out on all the benefits of sleep tracking which personally, has been essential in managing recovery and also illness

Other people are commenting here that they can wake up, put their phone on the charger and it is charged enough to last a full day by the time they take a shower and get dressed in the morning.

It’s fully charged in an hour and half from looking at the documentation.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#75
post #70

Interesting article. My partner bought an Apple watch a couple of years ago and I was shocked at what a poor value proposition it was. Very expensive and wouldn't even hold a charge for a day. I guess you get used to it but having to charge my watch every day would drive me mad. Obviously there are things it will do better than a Garmin (and things it can do that a Garmin simply can't) but overall it didn't make sens…

The Apple Watch is also a terribly designed device for running. Too much of its functions rely on interacting with the touchscreen, something you are either unable to do with sweaty hands when running or don't want to do as it draws your attention away for a prolonged amount of time and hurts your form. Garmin's unwavering commitment to physical buttons and how you can customize what they do is what makes them the go…

As a non-Appleista, what strikes me most is their "silo" mentality. Most of the iPhone /iWatch using fitness types I know log their stuff inside the Apple cloud, and do not crosspost to Garmin Connect or Strava so the non-Appleistas don't see their stuff. Whereas the Garmin/Strava world is relatively open. I can for example take the original Forerunner (pictured in the article) and upload stuff from it to the Garmin or Strava cloud, albeit slightly cumbersomely. I sometimes do with a later model, a Forerunner 305, even if it does take USB download to do it.

Physical buttons, though... I've lost more than one bike ride because the start/stop button was bumped on the Forerunner and it turned out not to be recording.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#76
Garmin recently entered the ballistic chronograph market with their Xero - it's the closest thing to actual magic I've experienced with a piece of technology. Chronographs are notoriously finicky, since you are trying to accurately measure the speed of a bullet in an uncontrolled environment.

Some optical chronos make you shoot through a very narrow window [0] which restricts you to a tiny shooting position and don't work in many natural lighting conditions. Some attach directly to the gun or barrel to allow any shooting position but are very sensitive to offset and distance and can't be fitted to a majority of pistols and rifles to work up load data [1]. Some higher end models get around all of these issues by using radar [2] but the implementation is tricky. The unit is about the size of a laptop, has to have the flat side pointed perfectly downrange, and collects data in a window triggered by a recoil or audio sensor. Practically this makes it unusable at a public range with other shooters in adjacent lanes because you have a lot of gunshots and other projectiles and spall wizzing around at all times creating a mass of false or irrelevant data. The radar units sometimes have Bluetooth connectivity for an app that records data strings and allows you to change sensitivity settings on the radar. The app is terrible and the physical UI on the unit is atrocious as well, and most range sessions devolve into tweaking multiple sensitivity params endlessly in a futile effort to get only your own shots to register, inevitably bumping and misaligning the radar in the process.

Which brings me back to Garmin, who somehow managed to release a tiny unit [3] that is the size of a GoPro, has only one settings option (fast or slow projectiles), and simply WORKS. It has a simple and clean UI but the biggest thing is how it somehow picks up all of your shots without the need for an external audio or recoil trigger to start collecting data, and never picks up data from adjacent shooters. I truly don't understand how they managed this because it isn't sensitive to alignment like other units were. As long as it is on your bench or vaguely pointed downrange from near your position it filters out all of the other shots.

This wasn't an incremental product improvement either, they somehow launched their first product with superior UI, better form factor, better battery life, superior app integration, impeccable data quality, and better commercial availability than all of the previous solutions. When I show it to other experienced reloaders at the range they literally cannot believe how well it works. The only thing it doesn't compete on is price, which is fine because the reloading/shooting market that needs this unit is fairly well heeled and it still costs less than the combined used prices of all the various chronographs this replaces. Their product team hit this one so far out of the park.

0 - https://www.caldwellshooting.com/range-gear/chronographs-and...

1 - https://magnetospeed.com/v3-ballistic-chronograph

2 - https://mylabradar.com/product/chronograph/

3 - https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/771164

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#77

Interesting article. My partner bought an Apple watch a couple of years ago and I was shocked at what a poor value proposition it was. Very expensive and wouldn't even hold a charge for a day. I guess you get used to it but having to charge my watch every day would drive me mad. Obviously there are things it will do better than a Garmin (and things it can do that a Garmin simply can't) but overall it didn't make sens…

From my perspective -- someone who wants the things a smart watch does -- I can't figure out what a Garmin is for.

They don't really do the job of a regular smart watch and aren't designed for wearing all the time, so it becomes a secondary device you need to manage and charge separately, not to mention pay for. Meanwhile, an Apple Watch can do all of it.

IME, the battery life of Garmin's isn't a game changer... if you're using GPS (which for me would be all the time I'm using it), you're still charging regularly. Might as well charge every time you take it off. Not quite daily, but in the same ball park.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#78
I use a Garmin edge 830 for cycling and it feels like one of those devices where software engineers hated every minute developing the GUI for it. I can only imagine that the reason garmin is profitable is because they keep the same cheap hardware and custom OS they developed 10, 20 years ago for generations and just do occasional GUI refreshments. Definitely going to switch to an alternative for my next one.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you have a good routine, but it's pretty nice to just have to charge once a week or something

Yeah but we can always just shift that goalpost of a tradeoff and act like our arbitrary choice is the only right way. You need to charge that every week? Well this one lasts two weeks. Only two weeks, what a drag, this one lasts a month. You need to actually charge it? A Citizen Eco Drive charges itself even with only indoor light. Or an automatic watch that self winds on regular wrist movements, never really needin…

Of course, I just want the activity and sleep tracking, and the occasional alert or notification, so the tradeoff is easy. If I wanted whatever the apple watch can do beyond that I might make a different choice

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#80
I actually really like the fact that my Garmin Instinct is not really a smart watch, it makes connecting it to your phone optional. Mine has never connected to a phone because I don't like to run Google's spyware on my phone. Yet, I can use most of it's functions I care about (time & date, GPS, moon & sun, compass, steps, heart rate, temperature, sports-specific stuff) without giving up my soul to Big Tech.
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