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Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

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Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#71

Post by teractiveodular »

killjoywashere wrote: post #68
ls612 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MAD precludes total wars of national survival ala WW2. It does not at all preclude the sorts of cabinet wars that were fought between the European powers for centuries before Napoleon.

If we crossed the Yalu River today, do you think we'd be alive tomorrow to talk about it? Nuclear deterrence, as part of the taboo, prevents any nation from violating the sovereignty of a nuclear power. The only exception I know of is the Yom Kippur War, and if there is ever a person who never received a well-earned Nobel Peace Prize, it's Golda Meir.

Yes? North Korea's own nuclear capability is very limited, and China doesn't care enough about North Korea to use its own arsenal and risk nuclear annihilation.

I still wouldn't want to be in Seoul or Tokyo if that happens though, and yes, there's a non-zero risk somebody somewhere gets trigger happy and things spiral out of control.

Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#72

Post by myself248 »

thfuran wrote: post #43
boomboomsubban wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse, they mention supervised traffic, so presumably at some point people standing outside next to speeding traffic and radiation. Also, how fast is "safe" when seemingly you'll regularly be encountering crashed cars from people who didn't make it?

What do you mean crashed cars from people who didn't make it? The sign is basically a "minimum speed 40 mph" sign routinely seen on the interstates but with a bit more teeth. The sides of highways aren't usually lined with crashed cars (except occasionally when winter gets feisty).

If I have permission to do 150, you bet I'm going to do 150. Even though I don't exactly have a ton of experience doing it. A fair number of people are going to misjudge, overcontrol, suffer equipment failures, etc.

Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#73

Post by teractiveodular »

Dalewyn wrote: post #58
matthewdgreen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current government is going to weaken Western alliances. China is going to take Taiwan. Japan and South Korea are going to rapidly develop nuclear weapons programs. North Korea will increase the range of its missiles to reliably hit the entire US. The entire Middle East is going to nuclearize, with Iran first and then Saudi Arabia (the Trump white house was trying to arrange this last term, I suppose they'll succ…

>Japan and South Korea are going to rapidly develop nuclear weapons programs. Japan would need to amend their constitution for that, and that is simply not happening. They have failed to amend their constitution for much more mundane objectives, let alone nukes.

That would absolutely happen if China invaded Taiwan and the US stood by twiddling its fingers.

Remember, Sweden and Finland were staunchly against NATO membership until Russia invaded Ukraine.

Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#74

Post by killjoywashere »

teractiveodular wrote: post #71
killjoywashere wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we crossed the Yalu River today, do you think we'd be alive tomorrow to talk about it? Nuclear deterrence, as part of the taboo, prevents any nation from violating the sovereignty of a nuclear power. The only exception I know of is the Yom Kippur War, and if there is ever a person who never received a well-earned Nobel Peace Prize, it's Golda Meir.

Yes? North Korea's own nuclear capability is very limited, and China doesn't care enough about North Korea to use its own arsenal and risk nuclear annihilation. I still wouldn't want to be in Seoul or Tokyo if that happens though, and yes, there's a non-zero risk somebody somewhere gets trigger happy and things spiral out of control.

The Yalu River separates China and North Korea. General MacArthur sent US troops across the Yalu, which is what caused the Chinese to enter the Korean War, and led to most of the US casualties. Truman fired MacArthur for disobeying his order to stay on the Korean side of the Yalu. That was before the Chinese had nuclear weapons. The Korean peninsula has been under an armistice and not at peace for 70 years in large part because MacArthur invaded China in I would characterize as a Cabinet war mentality. Go to the MacArthur museum in Norfolk, Virginia. MacArthur was from an extraordinarily wealthy family and clearly saw himself as an aristocrat with warrant to act unilaterally while deployed far afield.

If the US sent its own troops to invade China today, do you think we be here to talk about it tomorrow? That would be no Cabinet war.

Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#75

Post by naniwaduni »

Dalewyn wrote: post #58
matthewdgreen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current government is going to weaken Western alliances. China is going to take Taiwan. Japan and South Korea are going to rapidly develop nuclear weapons programs. North Korea will increase the range of its missiles to reliably hit the entire US. The entire Middle East is going to nuclearize, with Iran first and then Saudi Arabia (the Trump white house was trying to arrange this last term, I suppose they'll succ…

>Japan and South Korea are going to rapidly develop nuclear weapons programs. Japan would need to amend their constitution for that, and that is simply not happening. They have failed to amend their constitution for much more mundane objectives, let alone nukes.

National attitudes have a remarkable ability to shift in response to neighbors getting invaded, as we learned a couple of years ago.

Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#76

Post by Ccecil »

JSTrading wrote: post #13

Anyone know where there any installations of these signs?

The "evacuation route" and crossbars guiding you through can be seen (at least last time I looked) in Umatilla, OR.

US Army chemical weapons depot...they are disposing of some nasty stuff there. If there is a leak they shut down certain roads apparently.

Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#77

Post by kelseyfrog »

Dalewyn wrote: post #67
Retric wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west is the strongest it’s ever been in its entire history. O, no someone claims things are failing. Look people have been saying that for thousands of years it doesn’t actually mean it’s true.

>The west is the strongest it’s ever been in its entire history. I would argue the West was at its peak in the mid to late 20th century when we were so awesome we conquered the god damn Moon, made transcontinental, transoceanic and even space travel quick and mundane, invented the microprocessor, and then finally invented a communication system that connected the entire world. Turn of the 21st century onwards has bee…

That's an artifact of the prevalence of modernism at that time rather than an objective truth. The "vibe", as it were, was that things were getting better and better until the gaps of modernism sowed the seeds for its own destruction. Pointing them out led to the rise of post-modernism which felt like a fall, sure, but I'm not convinced it actually was any more than modernism was an actual rise.

Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#78

Post by hobobaggins »

bpye wrote: post #47
XorNot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's likely because alpha and beta emitters are trivially blocked by common car materials, but getting your skin covered in them or inhaling them does much more damage (this is actually what killed a lot of Chernobyl firefighters: they wore their dust covered coats for hours, and died of sepsis from extensive beta burns. Had they been decontaminated quickly, they would've survived).

I’m not 100% convinced by that as motorcycles are also permitted in some cases?

As you'd find if you drove a motorcycle fast enough in the rain, a motorcycle with a fairing and windshield will sweep the rain (or dust) over and past you and you only get wet when you stop at a light. Perhaps that's the case here as well.

Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#79

Post by hobobaggins »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #29
IronWolve wrote: post #2

Driving in montana before the state implemented a max speed, I'd have my cruise control set at 100 mph. I remember seeing limos pass me like I was sitting still. I miss those days.

Reasonable and prudent is objectively the best speed limit. Going 110 on a dry empty highway? Carry on. Going 110 on I-90 right outside of Billings? Pull over young man, its time for the highway patrol to have a philosophical discussion with you on the side of the road.

The problem is that it's literally subjectively the best speed limit, at least from the standpoint of that young man outside of Billings.

Re: Road signs to help people limit radiation exposure in contaminated areas

#80

Post by Retric »

Dalewyn wrote: post #67
Retric wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west is the strongest it’s ever been in its entire history. O, no someone claims things are failing. Look people have been saying that for thousands of years it doesn’t actually mean it’s true.

>The west is the strongest it’s ever been in its entire history. I would argue the West was at its peak in the mid to late 20th century when we were so awesome we conquered the god damn Moon, made transcontinental, transoceanic and even space travel quick and mundane, invented the microprocessor, and then finally invented a communication system that connected the entire world. Turn of the 21st century onwards has bee…

Air travel has really only become commonplace fairly recently. Decade over decade growth has pushed the domain of the wealthiest, then well off, down to just about anyone.

> space travel quick and mundane

Space travel was rare and extremely expensive until very recently when we’ve made huge strides. And this isn’t just a singular SpaceX thing the from ion engines to basics like solar panels things have been steadily improving.

IMO the Apollo program was less impressive than many recent missions like DART. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Asteroid_Redirection_Te...

You want to push new boundaries? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Solar_Probe

As to culture and militarily some of this depends on how western you view Russia.

But, the US was cautious of China all the way back in the Korean War well before Vietnam when we did the same.

> Turn of the 21st century onwards has been a slow but steady and undeniable decline.

Again we’re better off economically, militarily, and technologically in 2025 than 2000, 1980, 1960 let alone any point before then. The diseases of the rich have become commonplace and we view that as a failure rather than the underlying progress that it is.

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