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If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

jamesshore.com

71–80 of 126 posts

Re: If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

#71

Interesting, but not surprising, that Agility only made place 5, way behind Quality . It will soon be a quarter of a century since the Agile Manifesto has been published. It would be sad if we hadn't progressed since then.

I did not understand it as an ordered list? Just a set of 6 items. Did i miss anything? What makes you conclude that this is a priortized list? Profitability is number 6. Who cares about internal quality if you are not making money in the long run

Re: If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

#72

Interesting, but not surprising, that Agility only made place 5, way behind Quality . It will soon be a quarter of a century since the Agile Manifesto has been published. It would be sad if we hadn't progressed since then.

if you'll allow some negativity, I wouldn't expect a talk at a "Scrum Gathering" to care much about the Agile Manifesto

Re: If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

#74
I always feel like these manager types have drunk deeply from the koolaid for some reason. It’s a lot of words and processes that they usually cargo culted from somewhere else. A lot of it seems to boil down to “don’t be an idiot” and “actually care about your work”. They always have this air of superiority because they’re high up on the org chart. Like CEOs who think they’re the chosen ones, when plenty of people could do it just fine. I laugh hard when people like Zuck say software devs will be replaced by AI, not realizing an AI CEO probably wouldn’t have burnt 30 billion on a terrible metaverse flop.

Re: If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

#75

> We’re an inverted organization. That means that tactical decisions are made by the people who are doing the work, not managers I've worked at various places where this was supposedly the system. Guess who had budgets, hiring powers, went to leadership offsites? Yeah not the ICs. It usually just means the C level will smile and nod while "listening" to your feedback instead of ignoring you completely Has anyone work…

The "Valve Handbook for New Employees" was an interesting read. I still don't know how much is fact and how much is fiction, but I liked some of the ideas there.

Re: If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

#76
post #74

I always feel like these manager types have drunk deeply from the koolaid for some reason. It’s a lot of words and processes that they usually cargo culted from somewhere else. A lot of it seems to boil down to “don’t be an idiot” and “actually care about your work”. They always have this air of superiority because they’re high up on the org chart. Like CEOs who think they’re the chosen ones, when plenty of people co…

Would it have bought instagram and whatsapp? Would it have identified major social media trends in competitors that couldn't be bought and outcompeted them at their own game? Would it have suggested developing your own ad platform or just should banner space per cpm?

There is a lot to not like about Meta and Zuckerberg, but saying he's a bad business man is a little silly. Metaverse was a wrong and expensive move, but it was a wrong move they could afford.

Re: If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

#77

Saying that you can’t measure productivity is a pseudo-truism and a cop out of doing your job. How do you measure productivity = how do you decide whom to promote; how do you decide whom to fire; how do you decide how to distribute bonuses; etc. If you can’t measure productivity, you can’t do your job as an engineering manager. It’s not a question that should have been asked 3 months into a job. It’s a question that…

So... how do you measure productivity? The engineering managers you refer to probably attempt to measure productivity, but may well fail to correctly identify high and low performers.

Re: If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

#78
post #74

I always feel like these manager types have drunk deeply from the koolaid for some reason. It’s a lot of words and processes that they usually cargo culted from somewhere else. A lot of it seems to boil down to “don’t be an idiot” and “actually care about your work”. They always have this air of superiority because they’re high up on the org chart. Like CEOs who think they’re the chosen ones, when plenty of people co…

I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts, with perhaps the exception of the CEO. Or rather, the CEO needs to be someone who will be followed by the rest of the organization. Their decision making could be replaced by an AI, probably more readily than the specialist engineers in fact, but it comes back to humans being tribal. Would the middle management follow an AI overlord? Would the engineers buy into the AIs decisions?

The CEO's job is to decide on the future direction of the company, and then convince both the owners and the employees that this is a good direction. The first part is easy to replace with AI, the second part isn't. At least not for now.

I guess taken to the limit, the CEO will become replacable the moment that the employees have been replaced with AIs, because that that point there's nobody left to lead really. One could actually argue that this is tantamount to the CEO cutting off the branch they are sitting on. After all, once all the employees are AIs, what's to stop the shareholders from saying: "Hold it right there Steve/Jeff/Mark/etc, why are we paying you big bucks? You can be replaced with an AI that will make much better decisions, and there are no employees left to lead anyway."

Re: If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

#79
post #74

I always feel like these manager types have drunk deeply from the koolaid for some reason. It’s a lot of words and processes that they usually cargo culted from somewhere else. A lot of it seems to boil down to “don’t be an idiot” and “actually care about your work”. They always have this air of superiority because they’re high up on the org chart. Like CEOs who think they’re the chosen ones, when plenty of people co…

I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts, with perhaps the exception of the CEO. Or rather, the CEO needs to be someone who will be followed by the rest of the organization. Their decision making could be replaced by an AI, probably more readily than the specialist engineers in fact, but it comes back to humans being tribal. Would the middle management follow an AI overlord? Would the engineers buy into the AIs deci…

> I guess taken to the limit, the CEO will become replacable the moment that the employees have been replaced with AIs, because that that point there's nobody left to lead really.

This seems very software-centric. You can do this today - e.g. Red Bull famously outsources basically everything but marketing[0], so they already have very few employees. However they do have a lot of suppliers, and that all needs managing.

[0] Their marketing is either simple TV ads or incredibly complex stuntwork and extreme sports.

Re: If we had the best product engineering organization, what would it look like?

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can but it's usually more obvious what's happening with code and how to fix it. Amazon wants you to think about the scaling issues while building as they don't want to lose the area under the customer curve on the far right. The theory is that with rdbms you have a magical box that scales vertically until it doesn't. And when it doesn't all you can do is scale back the customers until you fix it with sharding or a…

I recently finished a contract at a company who has gone full on dynamo with the idea that if we have slow queries and dynamo is good for Amazon, then it's good for us too. I've ran some explain on the queries causing issues and of course those queries didn't leverage indexes like they thought ....

How did you run explain queries on DynamoDB? Or may be you mean something different and I misunderstood you?
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