I seem to be stuck in a loop of sleeping 9h and sleeping 6h (which I hate) because I reliably wake up at about the same time, but can't reliably fall asleep exactly 7.5h before it (I guess). Does that suggest my circadian rhythm is just out of whack w/ 24h?
28h Days: year 1 update
71–80 of 134 posts
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
This isnt scientific but I’ve found that I “feel like” going to bed about 24.5 hours after I went to bed the day before. Without external stimuli, it’s very hard to avoid drifting into staying up very late at night for me.
This sounds suspiciously like “I tend to stay up later and later every night unless I force myself to go to bed on time” — which I suspect is pretty common, it certainly is for me. I’ll start staying up till 3, 4, 5, or later if I’m not on a schedule. Having kids helps.
Yup, a kid is a driver for regularity in sleep cycles.
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#73I’ve been fascinated with alternative sleep schedules since I was very young. My initial interest turned to a fascination when I realized the only positive long-term reports were usually from people trying to sell something: Their book, a sleep plan, or just using their sleep cycle as a social hook to impress others (influencers, basically). All of the forum reports started out optimistic and then ended in disappoint…
(I'm the post author)
For the few weeks that I'm required to go back to a "normal" sleep schedule, I long every day to go back to my 28h schedule.
I might at some point in the future try moving back to 24h for a longer period of time, but I'm planning to stick to the 28h schedule for at least a couple more years before I do this, and I'll keep doing the yearly updates to document things.
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is suspiciously similar because they are the same exact thing. The whole premise is how many hours is a comfortable wake-sleep cycle.
I don't think so actually. If you can "make yourself" go to bed at a "normal time" then you don't have non-24. People with non-24 usually have a longer than 24-hour cycle and can't "make themselves" go to sleep consistently at the same time (people with 24.5 or 25-hour days probably have some success with this though because if they stay up a bit later one day and still wake up at the same time, then by the time a pr…
I'm skeptical. Chronic sleep deprivation does a pretty good job of helping people go to sleep at the same time each day.
Either way, it seems like a arbitrary distinction to make. If Bob is happier and more productive on a 26 hour schedule, but can unhappily live on a 24 hour schedule, why doest that count?
It seems the relevant Factor is what their natural schedule actually is, given the circumstances etc
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#75This flies in the face of circadean rhythm research. I know the human body is extremely adaptable, but imagine making every single day a jet-lagged day. My younger self may have been able to tolerate it well enough, but there's no way I'd come out unscathed now.
You must not be aware of the research on Non-24[1] (or "Non-24-hour sleep–wake disorder") which OP seems to have (though perhaps they also aren't aware this is a thing). Not saying non-24 is good for you, but for people unable to follow a 24-hour schedule, free-running sleep (which is what OP is doing) is vastly better than constantly pushing through sleep deprivation, when one's schedule allows for it. Speaking as s…
I did free-running sleep for a while (I mention this in the original 28h day post), but decided on 28h days to weekly match other people's schedules.
I exercised regularly before 28h days, and my sleep was still chaotic with that. I didn't exercise daily though, it was hard to fit everything I wanted to do on a 24h day. Having longer days means I can fit more things, which I think is one of the reasons why I increased the amount of exercise after moving to 28h.
I also haven't read any research on this, I just did what felt more natural and logical to me.
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#76I seem to be stuck in a loop of sleeping 9h and sleeping 6h (which I hate) because I reliably wake up at about the same time, but can't reliably fall asleep exactly 7.5h before it (I guess). Does that suggest my circadian rhythm is just out of whack w/ 24h?
That depends on whether you're falling asleep around the same time (±1.5 hrs) every night or not.
If you are, then you're likely adjusted to the 24 natural cycle and something else is going on. The closest thing I'm aware of is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregular_sleep%E2%80%93wake_r...
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#77[deleted]
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think so actually. If you can "make yourself" go to bed at a "normal time" then you don't have non-24. People with non-24 usually have a longer than 24-hour cycle and can't "make themselves" go to sleep consistently at the same time (people with 24.5 or 25-hour days probably have some success with this though because if they stay up a bit later one day and still wake up at the same time, then by the time a pr…
I'm skeptical. Chronic sleep deprivation does a pretty good job of helping people go to sleep at the same time each day. Either way, it seems like a arbitrary distinction to make. If Bob is happier and more productive on a 26 hour schedule, but can unhappily live on a 24 hour schedule, why doest that count? It seems the relevant Factor is what their natural schedule actually is, given the circumstances etc
Why would anyone be happier on a 26-hour schedule if they can get an adequate amount of sleep and go to sleep close to the same time on 24-hour schedule?
I can see it going the other way, where if your natural rhythm is 22 hours you can likely force yourself to stay awake to align with 24 (and likely would be much happier than free-running on a 22-hour clock).
Speaking from personal experience, if I could consistently stick to a 24-hour schedule, I would. And I think most people with non-24 have the same position (and have likely tried many things before giving up, as tossing and turning for hours every night and then still not sleeping enough is pretty unpleasant).
Additionally, if Bob's rhythm is 26 hours then his sleep cycle is shifting ahead by 2 hours every night regardless of when he falls asleep. If he is able to fall asleep at the same time every night, his sleep cycle presumably isn't shifting, and even if 26 hours might be more natural for him, he's able to sync his cycle to 24 hours regardless.
So I don't think this would qualify them for non-24, as the circadian rhythm isn't shifting every day.
On the other hand, if Bob chooses to sleep 26 hours for whatever reason, perhaps he could be said to have it then? It's just inconceivable to me that someone would actually choose that given the option.
It's worth noting that the average human circadian rhythm is closer to 24.5 hours when external stimuli are removed. So it doesn't strike me as too different from Bob; people are nevertheless regulated to 24 hours by daylight and not said to be non-24, even if, like Bob, their natural state might be to sleep more.
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
The greatest benefit is that you can stay up until you're absolutely dog-tired every day, and not have to worry about all the rituals of "sleep hygiene", like limiting screen time, dimming lights, no coffee, etc. On a >24 hour sleep schedule, you _will_ be tired when it's time to sleep. Guaranteed. Not only that, you can sleep longer and will always feel well-rested. Meeting people all around the world, when they're…
After reading the article it kinda sounds like he just takes a lot more naps. Feels like cheating.
I've never seen one of these alternative sleep cycle people put forward a sensible cognitive study to go along with it. Like the people who sleep 5 hours a day but all spread out.
The thing with taking a similar test every day is that you should get better at it. So if the test you are abusing shows that your cognitive function is holding steady day by day, week by week, that is likely not a very good sign. It just means you aren't unraveling at an alarming rate. Better to be evaluated by professionals at the beginning and end, and maybe for some people who already know you to chime in on how unhinged you have or have not become.
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#80This flies in the face of circadean rhythm research. I know the human body is extremely adaptable, but imagine making every single day a jet-lagged day. My younger self may have been able to tolerate it well enough, but there's no way I'd come out unscathed now.
Actually it's pretty in-line with it. Natural circadian rhythm is ~25hrs, with some individual variance, and it's easier to extend a circadian rhythm than shorten it. Jet lag research finds that flying west (lengthening), you can adapt at a rate of ~1hr per day. It's not crazy to think that someone might naturally be at 26-27hrs, then stretch it an hour each day no problem.