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Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

dmarcchecker.app

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Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#71
post #14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First sentence: > In our study on the SPF, DKIM, and DMARC records of the top 1M websites, we were surprised to uncover more than 1,700 public DKIM keys that were shorter than 1,024 bits in length

So 1,700 out of 1,000,000, i.e. around 0.2%. "Not common" is one way of putting it, I guess.

The top million domains are more likely to be on top of their security than less prominent domains. 0.2% is therefore a fairly strict lower bound for the overall internet.

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#72
post #24

Because we need that compute for our React frameworks.

[flagged]

Well, backend is our precious server resources and front end resources belong to the lowly user. It's a matter of scale though, frontend is optinized for one concurrent user. Plenty of small websites using slow and bloated frameworks on the backend because it's easy.

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#73
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a number of years it was (non-officially) thought to be a feature to use weak DKIM keys. Some folks argued that short keys allowed you to preserve deniability, since DKIM signatures would only be short-lived and nobody would be able to use DKIM signatures to prove that any email was authentic. (I’m not saying that this is why most companies used short keys, just that there was a general view that short keys were…

Isn't deniability at odds with DKIM's goal? What would be the point of setting DKIM then? Sure, it helps with spam scores. But most companies rely on a major email provider to send emails, so maybe they wouldn't have deliverability issues anyway?

When using deniable authentication (e.g. Diffie-Hellman plus a MAC), the recipient can verify that the email came from the sender. But they can't prove to a third party that the email came from the sender, and wasn't forged by the recipient.

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#74

Me writing over 14 years ago: https://blog.jgc.org/2010/06/facebooks-dkim-rsa-key-should-b... This was doable 14 years ago for 512-bit keys.

For a number of years it was (non-officially) thought to be a feature to use weak DKIM keys. Some folks argued that short keys allowed you to preserve deniability, since DKIM signatures would only be short-lived and nobody would be able to use DKIM signatures to prove that any email was authentic. (I’m not saying that this is why most companies used short keys, just that there was a general view that short keys were…

Meanwhile in the real world, screenshots of emails without any cryptographic authentication at all are good enough to send people to prison.

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#75
post #43

I think the cynic in me says "so what" mostly because dkim as an ancient technology is hardly secure. I don't think we're any less prone to email fakery and spam. I'd be interested to see a possible new solution or a revamping of email as a protocol but that's unlikely. We're more likely to keep it like snail mail as we prioritise different forms of communication. Unfortunately nothing has beat the universal email ad…

Of course XMPP doesn't count... even though it's a standard, allows people to run their own server, have an email-like address of user@server, allows you to communicate from anywhere, and is how I, my family, and many many others chat online? :)

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#76

Breaking a 512-bit key for a good demonstration is very valuable security research, even if it's been done before. It's also legit to call out "Hey, here's a list of folks still using 512 bit, they should move off." ... but for me, actually cracking a real-world in-use key crosses an ethical line that makes me uncomfortable. IANAL but it might even be criminal. Just seems a bit unnecessary.

They only called out 1 out of the ~1.7k domains they found with keys shorter than 1024bits.

They _did_ call out the 3 of 10 tested major email providers that don't follow the DKIM RFC properly: Yahoo, Tuta, Mailfence (after having notified them).

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#77

Me writing over 14 years ago: https://blog.jgc.org/2010/06/facebooks-dkim-rsa-key-should-b... This was doable 14 years ago for 512-bit keys.

For a number of years it was (non-officially) thought to be a feature to use weak DKIM keys. Some folks argued that short keys allowed you to preserve deniability, since DKIM signatures would only be short-lived and nobody would be able to use DKIM signatures to prove that any email was authentic. (I’m not saying that this is why most companies used short keys, just that there was a general view that short keys were…

What's the problem with verifiable email? You can just delete old emails (if gmail or whoever archives them that's another problem). Most people probably operate under the assumption that email is verifiable in some way anyway. If you receive malicious email, isn't it a good thing to be able to verify where it came from? Doesn't that benefit senders and receivers alike? Or is this a case of "I want to verify you, but I don't want you to verify me"?

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because RSA 2048 is not yet broken, and once there we still have RSA 4096 to lean back on which is since quite some time the most common key size for most things using RSA (DKIM being one of the exceptions). In the context of DKIM we're waiting for Ed25519 to reach major adoption, which will solve a lot of annoyances for everyone.

Ed25519 has seen broad adoption in TLS and other stacks that are used pervasively where DKIM is also used. What’s blocking it for DKIM uniquely? (This isn’t intended as a leading question.)

X25519 has seen broad adoption (in the key exchange). Ed25519 has not, you can't actually use an Ed25519 certificate on the web. It's in a deadlock between CAs, browsers and TPM manufacturers (and to some extent NIST, because Ed25519 has not been approved by them).

It's not being blocked per se, you can use it mostly (98%) without any issues. Though things like Amazon SES incorrectly reject letters with multiple signatures. Google and Microsoft can't validate them when receiving. It's more that a few common implementations lack the support for them so you can't use _just_ Ed25519.

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a number of years it was (non-officially) thought to be a feature to use weak DKIM keys. Some folks argued that short keys allowed you to preserve deniability, since DKIM signatures would only be short-lived and nobody would be able to use DKIM signatures to prove that any email was authentic. (I’m not saying that this is why most companies used short keys, just that there was a general view that short keys were…

What's the problem with verifiable email? You can just delete old emails (if gmail or whoever archives them that's another problem). Most people probably operate under the assumption that email is verifiable in some way anyway. If you receive malicious email, isn't it a good thing to be able to verify where it came from? Doesn't that benefit senders and receivers alike? Or is this a case of "I want to verify you, but…

[deleted]

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Well, backend is our precious server resources and front end resources belong to the lowly user. It's a matter of scale though, frontend is optinized for one concurrent user. Plenty of small websites using slow and bloated frameworks on the backend because it's easy.

Man, users are the worst. Sometimes I think that they only exist to stress out my precious beautiful servers.
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