Live data from Hacker News

Agents Are Not Enough

arxiv.org

71–80 of 165 posts

Re: Agents Are Not Enough

#71

IMHO, the word agent is quickly becoming meaningless. The amount of agency that sits with the program vs. the user is something that changes gradually. So we should think about these things in terms of how much agency are we willing to give away in each case and for what gain[1]. Then the ecosystem question that the paper is trying to solve will actually solve itself, because it is already the case today that in many…

> IMHO, the word agent is quickly becoming meaningless. The amount of agency that sits with the program vs. the user is something that changes gradually

Yes, the term is becoming ambiguous, but that's because it's abstracting out the part of AI that is most important and activating: the ability to work both independently and per intention/need.

Per the paper: "Key characteristics of agents include autonomy, programmability, reactivity, and proactiveness.[...] high degree of autonomy, making decisions and taking actions independently of human intervention."

Yes, "the ecosystem will evolve," but to understand and anticipate the evolution, one needs a notion of fitness, which is based on agency.

> So we should think about these things in terms of how much agency are we willing to give away in each case

It's unclear there can be any "we" deciding. For resource-limited development, the ecosystem will evolve regardless of our preferences or ethics according to economic advantage and capture of value. (Manufacturing went to China against the wishes of most everyone involved.)

More generally, the value is AI is not just replacing work. It's giving more agency to one person, avoiding the cost and messiness of delegation and coordination. It's gaining the same advantages seen where smaller team can be much more effective than a larger one.

Right now people are conflating these autonomy/delegation features with the extension features of AI agents (permitting them to interact with databases or web browsers). The extension vendors will continue to claim agency because it's much more alluring, but the distinction will likely become clear in a year or so.

Re: Agents Are Not Enough

#72
post #4

This paper does at least lead with its version of what "agents" means (I get very frustrated when people talk about agents without clarifying which of the many potential definitions they are using): > An agent, in the context of AI, is an autonomous entity or program that takes preferences, instructions, or other forms of inputs from a user to accomplish specific tasks on their behalf. Agents can range from simple sy…

[deleted]

Re: Agents Are Not Enough

#74
post #4

This paper does at least lead with its version of what "agents" means (I get very frustrated when people talk about agents without clarifying which of the many potential definitions they are using): > An agent, in the context of AI, is an autonomous entity or program that takes preferences, instructions, or other forms of inputs from a user to accomplish specific tasks on their behalf. Agents can range from simple sy…

People have been talking about agents for at least 2 years. Remember when AgentGPT came out? How's that going so far? Agents are just LLMs with structured output, which often happens to be a JSON with info about a function arguments to be called.

> People have been talking about agents for at least 2 years.

WAY longer than that. What's come to the forefront specifically in the last year or two is very specific subset of the overall agent landscape. What I like to call "LLM Agents". But "Agents" at large date back to at least the 1980's if not before. For some of the history of all of this, see this page and some of the listed citations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_agent

> Agents are just LLMs with structured output

That's only true for the "LLM Agent" version. There are Agents that have nothing to do with LLM's at all.

Re: Agents Are Not Enough

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean that agents are being hyped in the same way data science was in the 2010s, or that they’ll have a similar impact over time? Would love to hear more of your thoughts.

I think he meant it's a similarly blurry term

Yeah, what does "data science" mean, exactly?

Re: Agents Are Not Enough

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically just the concept of feedback in a cybernetic system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics

Then is "agents" just non-spooky coded language for "cyborgs"

I studied cybernetics. Our teachers called us "cybernets".

Re: Agents Are Not Enough

#78

This whole idea of prompting an LLM and piping the output as the input (prompt) of another LLM and asking it to do something with it (like critique/edit it) and then piping the output of that LLM back to the first LLM along with instructions to keep repeating the process until some stop criteria is met seems to me to just be a money-making scheme to drive up token consumption.

[deleted]

Re: Agents Are Not Enough

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been talking about agents for at least 2 years. Remember when AgentGPT came out? How's that going so far? Agents are just LLMs with structured output, which often happens to be a JSON with info about a function arguments to be called.

> People have been talking about agents for at least 2 years. WAY longer than that. What's come to the forefront specifically in the last year or two is very specific subset of the overall agent landscape. What I like to call "LLM Agents". But "Agents" at large date back to at least the 1980's if not before. For some of the history of all of this, see this page and some of the listed citations: https://en.wikipedia.o…

Right - the term "user-agent" shows up in the HTTP/1.0 spec from 1996: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1945 and there's plenty of history of debates about the meaning of the term before then.

In 1994 people were already complaining that the term that had no universal agreed definition: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Oct/12/michael-wooldridge/

Re: Agents Are Not Enough

#80

I don't get the hype about Agents. It's just calling a LLM n-times with slightly different prompts Sure, you get the ability to correct previous mistakes, it's basically a custom chain of thought - but errors compound and the results coming from agents have a pretty low success rate. Bruteforcing your way out of problems can work sometimes (as evinced by the latest o3 benchmarks) but it's expensive and rarely viable…

> It's just calling a LLM n-times with slightly different prompts

That's one way of building something you could call an "agent". It's far from the only way. It's certainly possible to build agents where the LLM plays a very small role, or even one that uses no LLM at all.

Post reply on HN