Live data from Hacker News

Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

uwaterloo.ca

71–80 of 171 posts

Re: Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

#71

What I miss in the paper is any accuracy figure for glucose sensing. If this is an alternative to needles, how would the measurements compare? That is the first question one should ask. I fear we can assume that, although the approach might be novel, it can't replace needles for accurate measurement. But maybe I am overlooking the performance comparison.

Yea, it might perhaps be described more detailed in the mentioned paper (i haven't checked it yet.):

https://www.nature.com/articles/s44172-024-00194-4

EDIT: No, i don't think it's mentioned...

Re: Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

#73

Sounds exciting, but the fact their prototype is in a wristwatch form factor makes me wonder if it's aiming to be more of a media showpiece to hype investment valuation from those industry partners. Forward looking statements like "maybe we'll make it monitor blood pressure too" don't help. Even at the size of a brick, or without conveniently hiding the power supply off-camera, forgoing needles would still be a huge…

That's because it's bullshit. To clarify, the actual science they did is interesting (to me at least, as someone not in the field). The paper is linked here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s44172-024-00194-4 What is bullshit is the completely unwarranted conclusions in the title or in the quotes in the article. This is classic "science by press release". If you notice in the paper, they didn't do any testing, at all…

Thanks for calling this out. That was also my impression after having skimmed their paper: the only link to glucose monitoring is that the authors mention a few papers on the topic to motivate their research. And looking at the papers they cite, I see little evidence that this approach could work in practice in the near future. Most of the citations [2, 15, 16] are to their own work, which did not look at glucose monitoring in the human body.

This is not my field of expertise, and maybe I am misunderstanding the papers. But it seems that there is little evidence that non-invasive glucose monitoring via measuring dielectric properties works reliably in practice. No in-the-wild studies, no investigation of potentially confounding factors.

Take for example citation 22 from the paper. A study where the authors propose a new antenna design. They seem to measure how the pancreas changes size during insulin production by monitoring its dielectric properties. IIUC, they look for a dip in the frequency spectrum caused by absorption of a certain frequency band.

But their measurements show an even larger effect when measuring on the thumb instead of the pancreas. This effect is not explained at all. (My guess: after having patients fast for 8-10 hours, giving them glucose will have an effect on the whole metabolism, resulting in higher blood flow, and that's what they measured).

Also, while they operate the antenna in the GHz range, they use a cheap USB soundcard (sampling rate 44.1 kHz) for capturing the signal. I did not understand this at all. They also repeatedly use the term "dielectric radiation". Seems to be a rather uncommon term?

The "machine learning algorithms" mentioned in the title seem to be a simple linear regression? They claim an accuracy of ~90% and show some sample results. The complete study data is only available upon request, however.

[22] S.J. Jebasingh Kirubakaran, M. Anto Bennet, N.R. Shanker, Non-Invasive antenna sensor based continuous glucose monitoring using pancreas dielectric radiation signal energy levels and machine learning algorithms, Biomedical Signal Processing and Control, Volume 85, 2023, 105072, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.bspc.2023.105072

Re: Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

#74

> Currently, diabetics must frequently prick their fingers or rely on invasive wearable patches with micro-needles to track their blood-sugar levels Type 1 diabetic here - for what it's worth, CGMs aren't particularly invasive. At least in comparison to the many many years of finger pricking! But a smart watch solution would be cool. (I actually do get my CGM readings on my smart watch, which is really nice!) I know…

I don't use one or have diabetes but my understanding is that current CGMs measure interstitial glucose levels, which lag blood levels by up to 15 minutes. As a result, I believe those who require accurate spot measurements rather than just overall trends are still recommended to use finger stick tests.

In the article, the researcher claims "No other technology can provide this level of precision without direct contact with the bloodstream", so it sounds like they're claiming it's better than existing CGMs in a way that might be clinically relevant. Not sure if that's plausible or whether they are directly measuring blood glucose rather than interstitial.

Re: Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

#75

Sounds exciting, but the fact their prototype is in a wristwatch form factor makes me wonder if it's aiming to be more of a media showpiece to hype investment valuation from those industry partners. Forward looking statements like "maybe we'll make it monitor blood pressure too" don't help. Even at the size of a brick, or without conveniently hiding the power supply off-camera, forgoing needles would still be a huge…

If it fits in a watch a lot of nondiabetics will also buy it. It can be much cheaper that way.

Why would I as a nondiabetic buy it? Out of general curiosity for my blood sugar levels?

Re: Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

#76
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it fits in a watch a lot of nondiabetics will also buy it. It can be much cheaper that way.

Why would I as a nondiabetic buy it? Out of general curiosity for my blood sugar levels?

Because it's built-in as an extra feature to a watch that you were already gonna buy. Garmin watches can measure blood oxygen, but not many people use the feature because it drains the battery quickly. Samsung watches can do a single lead EKGs. Does that sell you the watch? Probably not. Is it yet another thing a company can add to the spec sheet and use to justify a price increase? Yes.

Re: Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

#77

Sounds exciting, but the fact their prototype is in a wristwatch form factor makes me wonder if it's aiming to be more of a media showpiece to hype investment valuation from those industry partners. Forward looking statements like "maybe we'll make it monitor blood pressure too" don't help. Even at the size of a brick, or without conveniently hiding the power supply off-camera, forgoing needles would still be a huge…

If it fits in a watch a lot of nondiabetics will also buy it. It can be much cheaper that way.

I think this is a really important point. Making it a feature in millions of watches will drive the cost of implementation down

Re: Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

#78
post #66

Looks like it's using mm-wave radar technology to detect changes of the dielectric properties of solutions with different levels of glucose. There is also a paper from them doing it with the Google's Project Sali dev kit, the radar that was mostly demonstrated with gesture recognition, but looks like it's useful for other things too like this. They also show it can be also used to detect glucose levels in drinks too…

> Looks like it's using mm-wave radar technology to detect changes of the dielectric properties of solutions with different levels of glucose.

I wonder if this is actually a viable path to detecting blood glucose. Wouldn't it be sensitive to other substances that affect the dielectric properties of a solution as complex as blood?

Re: Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

#79
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it fits in a watch a lot of nondiabetics will also buy it. It can be much cheaper that way.

Why would I as a nondiabetic buy it? Out of general curiosity for my blood sugar levels?

Endurance athletes already monitor this to figure out how to fuel best.

Re: Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

#80
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it fits in a watch a lot of nondiabetics will also buy it. It can be much cheaper that way.

Why would I as a nondiabetic buy it? Out of general curiosity for my blood sugar levels?

My garmin watch measures blood oxygen, heart-rare, breathing patterns, sleep patterns, stress-levels, etc

Usefull? It is if you use it. I do triathlons and knowing exactly where my blood-sugar level is at would allow me to focus better on the type of nutrition and the impact of it while working out. It would also tell me if i was a bit down before a race, so i can take some food.

Basically: this is a game-changer for amateur athletes, which would create a tremendous market for it. People i know already use the patches to measure as well, or lactate measurements, ketone measurements, etc. and that's just at the casual amateur level.

Another application that springs to mind is knowing when to eat instead of just having lunch and sugar-crashing 2 hours later in the office.

Post reply on HN