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VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

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Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#71

Post by binary132 »

magic_smoke_ee wrote: post #42
chii wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what happens when you dont control the machine you purchase. Stallman have warned much of this, but it is often on deaf ears, because consumers' behaviour don't change.

People are suckers for convenience without considering the details of how something is made, supported, or serviced, or the TCO.

It’s more that our major markets are totally dominated by the standard pattern and there are no meaningful alternatives outside of bike and mass transit, which are not meaningful alternatives to vehicle ownership.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#72

Post by croes »

dirkt wrote: post #52
Etheryte wrote: post #8

Germany makes a big ruckus about their local industry struggling to compete with Chinese manufacturers, but meanwhile the Volkswagen Group stumbles from one scandal to the next. As far as I'm concerned, if that's the way you do business, go bankrupt. I know all big manufacturers have their warts and flaws, but VW continues to be the frontrunner year after year.

Don't forget that other manufacturers collect the same data, they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access. No malicious intent this time, but it clearly highlights that companies need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure PII is actually protected to the degree the law already requires. We also need laws that force companies to make opting out of this kind of data collection much…

> they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access

Correction:

They just don't have a known collection of blunders that allow access.

I bet if you look closely you’ll find more.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#73

Post by simoncion »

f1shy wrote: post #66
epolanski wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) is ridiculous speculation and fearmongering. Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car? I don't care how much media tries to brainwash us that China is my enemy, facts are that there are way more tangible proofs of all us being consistently spied by US-led agencies, we have proof that from dams to electrical grids the US has one button methods to create chaos in most of the world, and yet, peopl…

I do not think 2 is ridiculous. Not at all! But I agree we should fear that from all vehicles, no matter what make.

#2 is absolutely ridiculous. As OP said:

> 2) is ridiculous speculation and fearmongering. Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car?

The idea expressed is the notion that one should be afraid of this "special threat" posed by Chinese-made vehicles... which is utter nonsense and fearmongering.

It seems like you and the OP are in agreement here.

EDIT: Fixed my bad Engrish and grammar in the second-to-last paragraph

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#74

Post by croes »

pluc wrote: post #6

This is why you don't bring your car for service at dealers. On "dumb" cars, that's when the transfer happens and it can be location data and even car audio. That's also why you don't install these little trackers to find your car when it gets stolen, because when it isn't stolen, they make money selling your location data, and that's the real product. Weaponizing convenience, as usual.

New cars are all equipped with SIM cards.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#75

Post by f1shy »

rurban wrote: post #20

They don't only collect, they also share this data online to interested parties, unprotected. With full name and email.

And born date! Just a little bit of background: if you call to any clinic or private service, health or otherwise, is custom in Germany to verify your identity asking your born date and address; both fields were disclosed. So if I see X parks in a clinic, I could call and get the results of any treatment or whatever… just terrible !

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#76

Post by 28304283409234 »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #38
harha wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is also quite involved by making sure that a car can’t simply be a car anymore but needs a lot of complex systems that may ore may not work as intended, like remote capabilities etc.

It's all part of a plan. The EU is very busy setting up the equivalent of the chinese "social credit". It started with "ESG" rating by banks (where you're already attributed an ESG rating depending on which companies you invest your money in) and now it's likely they'll be moving forward with computing your yearly carbon emission to then decide if you can go on vacation or not and how far. Don't underestimate the glo…

EU has prevented many dystopia from even forming. The main reason we have seen so little war in our continent is the EU.

Edit:

"computing your yearly carbon emission to then decide if you can go on vacation or not and how far."

I am one hundred percent behind that idea. Make this law. Please. People need boundaries. Freedom is not the absence of boundaries.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#77

Post by simoncion »

Earw0rm wrote: post #64
epolanski wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) is ridiculous speculation and fearmongering. Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car? I don't care how much media tries to brainwash us that China is my enemy, facts are that there are way more tangible proofs of all us being consistently spied by US-led agencies, we have proof that from dams to electrical grids the US has one button methods to create chaos in most of the world, and yet, peopl…

Because Tesla isn't owned and controlled by a foreign government and military rival. (OK, Elon is a little too cosy with Putin for my liking, but not to that extent). I think it's reasonable to be sceptical about whether a state that brings us disposable vapes, TikTok and throwaway fast fashion has our best interests at heart.

Unless you're ultra-wealthy and particularly powerful, you should be skeptical that most any State has your best interests at heart... and even those rich and powerful folks tend to get swatted down if they become too much of a nuisance.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#78

Post by f1shy »

ahartmetz wrote: post #57
perch56 wrote: post #54

Funny enough, ‘Cariad’ translates to ‘hell chariot’ in Romanian—a name that feels oddly fitting given this fiasco.

Imagine how bad software development in car companies must be - it's worse than that in reality. A giant clusterfuck of incompetence, especially from the top.

I can absolutely attest to this. Like 200%. The level of incompetence in SW is just beyond comprehension. Just mind blowing. Unbelievable stupid.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#79

Post by harha »

deadbunny wrote: post #39
harha wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is also quite involved by making sure that a car can’t simply be a car anymore but needs a lot of complex systems that may ore may not work as intended, like remote capabilities etc.

Which regulations mandate these "complex systems"?

There's a summary from the EU: [0]

Looks like they're not all working that great: [1], [2]

I don't think all assistants are that bad in general, but I'm not sure that taking all capabilities and responsibilities (well that point is a bit of an open question with these systems) away from the driver is the right approach.

If you drive like a decent human being (and as required by law in most places), it can be quite safe already, adding complexity may actually cause issues. That some people don't drive that way shouldn't be the reason to force these systems on to everyone, better to do a good job in teaching driving (driving schools in my country are expensive, but otherwise mostly worthless except for the safety training which strangely enough is done after getting the license), etc.

[0]: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/80f... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38472167 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41968551

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#80

Post by f1shy »

gambiting wrote: post #56
TacticalCoder wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think people on here are ready for quite where all this goes. Exactly. People should vote for less government and should vote for those willing to defend freedom of speech. Actually: we're heading towards that dystopian future because of all the government lovers and apologists. There are only 40% of the EU citizens that don't want the EU. It's not enough.

>>There are only 40% of the EU citizens that don't want the EU. 40% of EU citizens are not right in their heads then. That number should be a lot smaller.

That is a little harsh. Good that democracy is about respecting the opinions of other people.
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