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A Minecraft server written in COBOL

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Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#71

Post by cratermoon »

kjs3 wrote: post #53
Koshkin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let’s not forget, so was FORTRAN. (Programmers coded in Assembler back then.)

Fortran (FORmula TRANslation) was intended for a very peculiar subset of 'non-programmers': mathematicians, engineers and the like. It ends up being a pretty good impedance match for people who are use to dealing with terse forms of expression already.

and and COBOL (COmmon Business-Lriented Language) was intended for the subset of non-programmers dealing with things like money and inventory.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#72

Post by kachapopopow »

Buttons840 wrote: post #62
kachapopopow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that get things done usually don't care about code quality. I noticed myself in a place where I just never finished anything anymore by trying to write something to last. Over the years I've found a good balance, but I've found that iterating over garbage will eventually turn into something good and I've been doing so since.

Is good software a Dorodango? A pile of mud that has polished enough to be pretty.

Funny, but no. Software never becomes a smooth sphere, instead you keep adding more chunks to it that are barely holding on that somewhat resembles a sphere... eventually. Wireguard was great from the start.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#73

Post by Thegn »

martin-t wrote: post #65
heavensteeth wrote: post #42

I'm sure this is some kind of fallacy, but I feel I quite often see ostensibly impressive small side projects like this written in simple plain languages like C (or here COBOL). Every similar, e.g., Rust project I see seems almost non-functional despite having 10x the SLOC. My working theory is that simpler languages lend themselves to blueprinting ideas and getting something working even with an ugly messy codebase,…

I don't think it's a fallacy. As someone who has 2 WIP games in Rust, I noticed that getting a very minimal gameplay prototype was pretty easy (given a sane engine choice)* but then adding features made the code balloon in size. Switching from singleplayer to multiplayer was a mess. I also fell for some fads and had to waste time removing them. And Rust really, really doesn't like heavily interconnected graphs of gam…

I know one of those two is Bevy, what is the other one?

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#74

Post by mnau »

notfried wrote: post #5

> Well, there are quite a lot of rumors and stigma surrounding COBOL. This intrigued me to find out more about this language, which is best done with some sort of project, in my opinion. You heard right - I had no prior COBOL experience going into this. I hope they'd write an article about any insights they gained. Like them, I hear of these rumors and stigma, and would be intrigued to learn what a new person to COBO…

Yeah, I love these insights.

If you are interested, here are insights from making a COBOL to C# compiler: https://github.com/otterkit/otterkit-cobol/issues/40

I am now convinced that COBOL is just a high level assembler.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#75

Post by mnau »

Thegn wrote: post #73
martin-t wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a fallacy. As someone who has 2 WIP games in Rust, I noticed that getting a very minimal gameplay prototype was pretty easy (given a sane engine choice)* but then adding features made the code balloon in size. Switching from singleplayer to multiplayer was a mess. I also fell for some fads and had to waste time removing them. And Rust really, really doesn't like heavily interconnected graphs of gam…

I know one of those two is Bevy, what is the other one?

Likely Fyrox: https://github.com/FyroxEngine/Fyrox

Oh god, look at the authors contribution graph from last year. He is the living meme.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#76

Post by martin-t »

Thegn wrote: post #73
martin-t wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a fallacy. As someone who has 2 WIP games in Rust, I noticed that getting a very minimal gameplay prototype was pretty easy (given a sane engine choice)* but then adding features made the code balloon in size. Switching from singleplayer to multiplayer was a mess. I also fell for some fads and had to waste time removing them. And Rust really, really doesn't like heavily interconnected graphs of gam…

I know one of those two is Bevy, what is the other one?

Yes, the other is Fyrox. I don't think there are other viable 3D engines in Rust but at this point the hype surrounding Bevy is so large people wouldn't notice (and I stopped following the scene for the most part).

There are also bindings to Godot which is probably the way to go if you actually wanna get shit done. I talked to their authors and they avoided promoting it on Reddit for a while because the hype was bordering on harassment.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#79

Post by martin-t »

mnau wrote: post #75
Thegn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know one of those two is Bevy, what is the other one?

Likely Fyrox: https://github.com/FyroxEngine/Fyrox Oh god, look at the authors contribution graph from last year. He is the living meme.

He's doing it because he likes learning and coding. And he knows what he's doing. Rust has huge issues attracting experienced gamedevs (unlike any other area) for some reason and mrDIMAS is one of the few exception, originally from Larian studios which made Baldur's Gate 3.

He used to have a Patreon with a modest goal of $1000 per month and was making decent progress towards it but then the war started and after it was clear he was not getting any of the money any time seen, he had to switch to other platforms but by then the opportunity was gone.

He worked for a while for another big game studio to save up and then went back to Fyrox.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#80

Post by bawolff »

heavensteeth wrote: post #42

I'm sure this is some kind of fallacy, but I feel I quite often see ostensibly impressive small side projects like this written in simple plain languages like C (or here COBOL). Every similar, e.g., Rust project I see seems almost non-functional despite having 10x the SLOC. My working theory is that simpler languages lend themselves to blueprinting ideas and getting something working even with an ugly messy codebase,…

I think the difference is that rust is hyped - so all you need to do to get attention is to start on it, since "rust" is kind of a selling point all by itself.

Nobody cares about c or cobol, so you have to do something useful to get attention.

In the end i suspect it is just survivorship bias.

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