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Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

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Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#71

Post by graemep »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #61
vasco wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my grandpa's village everything was local production and commerce but they all lived way worse than me and my friends that get paid through remote companies and spend our money online. It's incredibly unclear to me why a super poor and undeveloped local economy is better than a specialized globalized one. In my country there was a dictatorship with protectionism and when we opened things got way better, not worse.…

> In my grandpa's village everything was local production and commerce but they all lived way worse than me and my friends that get paid through remote companies and spend our money online. (1) That is because technology also takes away components of life that one can enjoy without being rich such as accesss to nature and local food production. (2) The global economy is only so "good" because it takes advantage of th…

The first point is true, but most people do not choose it.

I do not think your second point stands. Almost the entire world is financially better off than it was in the past. Lots of third world economies are visibly richer than they were a few decades ago. Whose suffering are they benefitting from?

Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#72

Post by vouaobrasil »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #68
vouaobrasil wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, also, if you don't support Amazon, then you don't support the growth of a large company like Amazon which is one more component of the collection of big corporations that are exactly those responsible for globalization in the first place.

[flagged]

It is a bad thing. And you say it like it's a dichotomy.

And I could certainly get most of the comforts of modern life with 5% of the force of globalization. House, food, bed, some reading material, etc. I don't really care for technology, and I use it because it's part of my work and livelihood. BUT, I could easily be just as happy living a simpler life.

Believe me, I've already thought about it. I could be pretty much as comfortable with WAY less global trade. Most people buy way too much clothes, use way too much technology, none of which makes life more comfortable.

> Hell, without globalization you wouldn't even be able to do your job, where do you think your Nikon's, Canon's and Sony's come from?

(A) My point is that if there were other forms of labor, I wouldn't be less comfortable.

(B) Again, I'm arguing for a reduction in global trade, not an outright ban. My point is that it needs to be reduced.

Is it hypocritical to complain about your government even though they make the country that you live in? Of course, I'm using the resources I have, but I could be equally comfortable in a different world. My argument is that our current world is not necessary and not optimal.

Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#73

Post by roenxi »

tsujamin wrote: post #35
vasco wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had this exact sentiment for many years but... what are we supporting really? Is it because you want a distributed network of inventory across the country near you in case of emergency? Is it because you like talking to someone when doing purchases? Is it because you think someone is doing a societal good by parking money in inventory they brought near you? Is it because you just don't like someone doing it more…

Perhaps it’s out of fear of what Amazon’s market and price-setting power would be post-local stores

Amazon doesn't have any extra power post-local stores. If Amazon ups their prices then the local stores reappear. In some weird future where Amazon completely obliterates small businesses it might take a few years, but it'd take more than a few years of good prices before that from Amazon to get to that state. The manufacturers always have strong incentives to defect from an AWS dominated equilibrium. They want middleman prices to be low, it means they move more goods and make more money.

Although I should stress I like the idea of buying local. If the money goes off to some exotic foreign place it is less likely that I will get my hands on it later on. Better to live in a wealthy community than a poor one, etc. Local capital is local prosperity.

Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#74

Post by vasco »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #62
iLoveOncall wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you are supporting is local sustainability. The world would be better off with less global trade and more local productions. Local productions means a stronger community and more visibility for business practices, because it's more sustainable. This is true for the extreme minority of products that ARE produced locally. If you buy a screwdriver from the privately-owned DYI shop around the corner it will have b…

Well, also, if you don't support Amazon, then you don't support the growth of a large company like Amazon which is one more component of the collection of big corporations that are exactly those responsible for globalization in the first place.

Globalization is one of the best things that has ever happened to humanity.

It allows whoever is willing to understand the peoples of the world share way more than what makes them different. Globalization, specially through the internet, but trade as whole, is my personal bet on what could "end all wars". In fact it is the first necessary step for the philosophical parts of the communist manifesto that are salvageable, the parts about the global coalition of common peoples working on shared goals and with similar baseline prosperity.

Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#75

Post by vouaobrasil »

graemep wrote: post #71
vouaobrasil wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my grandpa's village everything was local production and commerce but they all lived way worse than me and my friends that get paid through remote companies and spend our money online. (1) That is because technology also takes away components of life that one can enjoy without being rich such as accesss to nature and local food production. (2) The global economy is only so "good" because it takes advantage of th…

The first point is true, but most people do not choose it. I do not think your second point stands. Almost the entire world is financially better off than it was in the past. Lots of third world economies are visibly richer than they were a few decades ago. Whose suffering are they benefitting from?

> The first point is true, but most people do not choose it.

Because they lack wisdom and human beings en masse operate on instinct, not wisdom.

> Almost the entire world is financially better off than it was in the past. Lots of third world economies are visibly richer than they were a few decades ago. Whose suffering are they benefitting from?

The classic reply of the economist. It's because the industrial world measures better off with variables like "life expectancy" and "money".

But a longer life does not a better life make, nor does money always equate to better off.

For example: if I could live next to a beautiful national park and walk there every day, that would be more valuable to me than a million dollars but living in a huge city. How does the prevailing evaluative mechanism account for that?

Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#76

Post by ptero »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #61
vasco wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my grandpa's village everything was local production and commerce but they all lived way worse than me and my friends that get paid through remote companies and spend our money online. It's incredibly unclear to me why a super poor and undeveloped local economy is better than a specialized globalized one. In my country there was a dictatorship with protectionism and when we opened things got way better, not worse.…

> In my grandpa's village everything was local production and commerce but they all lived way worse than me and my friends that get paid through remote companies and spend our money online. (1) That is because technology also takes away components of life that one can enjoy without being rich such as accesss to nature and local food production. (2) The global economy is only so "good" because it takes advantage of th…

On (1), I grew up behind the iron curtain in a pre-internet age next to a village (no TV, no organized entertainment). The typical non-working activity there was not to enjoy the beauty of nature (as farmers they were fed up with it) but to be bored, get drunk and start fights with anyone non local. When the economy opened up in late 1980s anyone who could ran out to cities.

I will take technology and some globalism any day. My 2c.

Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#77

Post by vouaobrasil »

vasco wrote: post #74
vouaobrasil wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, also, if you don't support Amazon, then you don't support the growth of a large company like Amazon which is one more component of the collection of big corporations that are exactly those responsible for globalization in the first place.

Globalization is one of the best things that has ever happened to humanity. It allows whoever is willing to understand the peoples of the world share way more than what makes them different. Globalization, specially through the internet, but trade as whole, is my personal bet on what could "end all wars". In fact it is the first necessary step for the philosophical parts of the communist manifesto that are salvageabl…

It is only good if you take a short-term, human-supremacist view of the world. If you consider all life to have worth independent of its value to humanity, then globalization is a horror. And then globalization and the industrial society is the cause of climate change, so it's only good in the short-term.

Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#78

Post by WillAdams »

ramon156 wrote: post #5

Had to buy some simple toolkit today. It was 5 bucks on Amazon, but I decided to find a local store that sells it. Same price btw. I think we should be a bit more aware about the impact of ordering everything through Amazon. Not only regarding delivery, but also the message it sends to local stores.

I worked in an Amazon warehouse for two different periods:

- for over a year part-time on weekends

- four-day full-time in-between jobs recently

https://www.reddit.com/r/EDC/comments/dmnuts/53mamazon_fulfi...

Once, when polled by HR, I noted that it should be more efficient for many different people in a given neighborhood to place orders, and for one delivery truck to run through it dropping off packages even if somewhat fuel-inefficient, than for that myriad of consumers to make separate trips even if using fuel-efficient vehicles.

Stores should not try to "out-Amazon" Amazon --- I buy my groceries from a store which is 1 mile away, and usually stop on the way home from work --- if I need something over the weekend or on a telework day which won't wait, I walk or ride my bike unless there is some other errand which needs to be made. Similarly, I prefer to shop the local hardware store (bike-distance) for hardware and tools (when suitable ones are available, if not, then it's Harry Epstein, or Jim Bode, or a trip to Woodcraft, or an on-line order).

Folks forget what life was like before Amazon --- there were occasions when I drove all around multiple towns looking for one connector because I didn't want a project to wait for a special order and 6--8 weeks delivery --- my kids were amazed when we came across my copy of the book: _U.S. Mail Order Shopper's Guide: A Subject Guide Listing 3,667 Unique Mail Order Catalogs_ by Susan Spitzer

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4313476-u-s-mail-order-s...

Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#79

Post by vouaobrasil »

ptero wrote: post #76
vouaobrasil wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my grandpa's village everything was local production and commerce but they all lived way worse than me and my friends that get paid through remote companies and spend our money online. (1) That is because technology also takes away components of life that one can enjoy without being rich such as accesss to nature and local food production. (2) The global economy is only so "good" because it takes advantage of th…

On (1), I grew up behind the iron curtain in a pre-internet age next to a village (no TV, no organized entertainment). The typical non-working activity there was not to enjoy the beauty of nature (as farmers they were fed up with it) but to be bored, get drunk and start fights with anyone non local. When the economy opened up in late 1980s anyone who could ran out to cities. I will take technology and some globalism…

False dichotomy. Both situations are bad because both are predicated on lack of wisdom. A lack of wisdom in a poor place implies brawls and wanton violence. A lack of wisdom in a rich, technological age implies resource destruction and climate change.

Wisdom combined with restricted technology would be ideal, such as with the Amish. They have their problems but they show that a technologically restricted society is best. Note: I am not arguing for NO technology, but severely restricted technology.

Re: Amazon workers to strike at multiple US warehouses during busy holiday season

#80

Post by pkaeding »

vasco wrote: post #34
ramon156 wrote: post #5

Had to buy some simple toolkit today. It was 5 bucks on Amazon, but I decided to find a local store that sells it. Same price btw. I think we should be a bit more aware about the impact of ordering everything through Amazon. Not only regarding delivery, but also the message it sends to local stores.

I've had this exact sentiment for many years but... what are we supporting really? Is it because you want a distributed network of inventory across the country near you in case of emergency? Is it because you like talking to someone when doing purchases? Is it because you think someone is doing a societal good by parking money in inventory they brought near you? Is it because you just don't like someone doing it more…

I do it to try to keep the money flowing around in my local community.
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