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Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

businessinsider.com

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Re: Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

#71

Post by m00x »

paradite wrote: post #66
m00x wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the junior dev starry-eyed mindset. Doing web dev isn't the only thing in the world. AI will absolutely accelerate development, but we still need so much more modernization across all industries. We still have factories running on Windows NT with software made in the 80s. We have mines, lumberyards, farms, retail, parking, bio labs, etc. So many things need to be upgraded to the same standard as big tech is, but h…

I have to clarify that my statement don't apply to software engineers who are not working in tech companies or tech industries. I usually call them IT instead of tech. Wrote more in my blog post: https://16x.engineer/2022/08/23/it-vs-tech.html I have no knowledge of other industries that software is not the primary product.

For most industries the tech isn't the primary product.

Google sells ads, not tech Uber sells rides, not tech. Amazon sells a marketplace, not tech. Tesla sells cars, not tech.

Tech is just the tool.

Re: Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

#72

Post by m00x »

rapsey wrote: post #60
m00x wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing all over again

All those big old corps got taken to the cleaners for that. We will see how this AI thing turns out.

Time is a circle. All I know is that I wouldn't use Klarna's products. I work in fintech and the number of mistakes I've seen since devs started relying on AI has accelerated.

I use it too, but I'm not an idiot about it.

Re: Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

#73

Post by paradite »

m00x wrote: post #71
paradite wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to clarify that my statement don't apply to software engineers who are not working in tech companies or tech industries. I usually call them IT instead of tech. Wrote more in my blog post: https://16x.engineer/2022/08/23/it-vs-tech.html I have no knowledge of other industries that software is not the primary product.

For most industries the tech isn't the primary product. Google sells ads, not tech Uber sells rides, not tech. Amazon sells a marketplace, not tech. Tesla sells cars, not tech. Tech is just the tool.

Yes. Those products you listed are not in tech industries by my definition as well. You are right.

Google ads is in ad industry.

Uber is in transport industry.

Amazon is in electronic commerce industry.

I'm glad that we understand that we are talking about different things.

Re: Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

#74

Post by belter »

hyperadvanced wrote: post #50
arcticbull wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They see dollar signs

In theory the market will sort this out. Overly stingy firms will reap the rewards of lower quality and be outcompeted in their industries, overly generous ones will run out of money, the “just right” ones will exceed expectations and be rewarded. Where those lines are drawn probably varies by firms. I frankly don’t know how the company that invented monthly payments for shoes with a high interest rate will stay in b…

> In theory the market will sort this out.

If that would be true Billionaires would not have to buy the last US elections....

Re: Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

#75

Post by rapsey »

arcticbull wrote: post #57
hyperadvanced wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory the market will sort this out. Overly stingy firms will reap the rewards of lower quality and be outcompeted in their industries, overly generous ones will run out of money, the “just right” ones will exceed expectations and be rewarded. Where those lines are drawn probably varies by firms. I frankly don’t know how the company that invented monthly payments for shoes with a high interest rate will stay in b…

Yeah the whole BNPL space is very strange from my perspective -- it's basically just small dollar loans for borrowers you don't underwrite, without collateral (you can't repossess my socks) in exchange for super high merchant interchange. I was confident they'd all get ruined in the first real recession as that would be the first debt to go unpaid. 2021 wasn't a real recession I guess, since it lasted all of 5 minute…

It is strange in that it is a terrible business. Which is why they are burning money.

Re: Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

#76

Post by verzali »

rapsey wrote: post #32
ablation wrote: post #20

Nearly every CEO I’ve talked to in the past three months (only a handful, admittedly) has said something along these lines, if not quite as extreme. They genuinely believed the current state of the art is polished and powerful enough to replace huge swathes of coders, designers, writers, etc. leaving only a middle-management supervisory layer and some lower-level grunts to herd the bots. Or it’s a good PR ruse to sca…

Sounds like 20 years ago when everyone was moving IT to India.

I wonder if the presidental candidates of the 2030s will be rallying against AI taking all the jobs.

Re: Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

#77

Post by avidiax »

jstummbillig wrote: post #55
arcticbull wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They see dollar signs

I find it fascinating how the same people can be selfishly interested in their own finances, find bigger numbers (those that a CEO has to care about by mandate) dirty, and square that.

I think you're suggesting there is some cognitive dissonance there. I think there's some truth to that, but it's also ignoring a true difference.

Personal finances can be viewed (somewhat incorrectly) as not being zero-sum. Me making more for my work or investments seems like it doesn't take from anyone else.

While a CEO deciding that AI should handle as much of the labor in a company as possible seems like a decision that benefits the company and it's shareholders directly at the expense of its workers.

I think in actual fact both sides here are zero-sum, but when the worker makes more personally, there are only diffuse and marginally-affected losers (the company, its shareholders, consumers and customers experiencing higher prices, etc.). The company's actions would affect people that can be directly named and are terribly affected.

It's unfortunately the difference between stealing 5¢ from 10,000,000 people or $100k from 5 people.

Re: Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

#79

Post by paradite »

000ooo000 wrote: post #70
paradite wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough, now I write better code than I used to thanks to AI because of two reasons: - AI naturally writes AI code that is more organized and clean (proper abstraction, no messy code) - I've recognized that, for AI to write code on an existing codebase, the code has to be clean and organized and make sense, so I tend to do more refactoring to make sure AI can take over them and update them when needed.

>Funny enough, now I write better code than I used to thanks to AI because of two reasons: I assume you also believe you'll be one of the developers AI doesn't replace.

I'm actively transitioning out of a "software engineer" role to be more open minded on how to coexist with AI while still contributing value.

Prompt engineering, organizing code for AI agents to be more effective, guiding non-technical people to understand how to leverage AI, etc. I'm also building products myself and selling them myself.

Re: Klarna CEO: Company stopped hiring because AI 'can do all of the jobs'

#80

Post by paradite »

ein0p wrote: post #69
paradite wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough, now I write better code than I used to thanks to AI because of two reasons: - AI naturally writes AI code that is more organized and clean (proper abstraction, no messy code) - I've recognized that, for AI to write code on an existing codebase, the code has to be clean and organized and make sense, so I tend to do more refactoring to make sure AI can take over them and update them when needed.

See, the thing is, to determine which abstractions are "right and proper" you _already need a software engineer_ who knows those kinds of things. Moreover, that engineer needs to ability to read that code, understand it, and plan its evolution over time. He/she also needs to be able to fix the bugs, because there will be bugs.

I think your main thesis is that "AI of today and foreseeable future is not going to solve them end to end."

My belief is that we can't solve them today (agree with you), but we can solve them in foreseeable future (in 3 years).

So it is really a matter of different beliefs. And I don't think we will be able to convince each other to switch belief.

Let's just watch what happens?

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