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Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

euractiv.com

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Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#71
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like The Netherlands. Hypocrisy. White supremacy. Living off of the image of a before time. Corrupt yet not willing to admit it. Blaming everything on immigrants. I live in NL and a lot of what you say about Sweden sounds very similar.

Almost every violent street crime, street robbery, or armed robbery is perpetrated by people with some form of immigrant background. Both in the NL and in Sweden. (I'm a swede living in the NL). Also western supremacy (the notion that western culture is superior in the world) is not the same as white supremacy.

Let me ask you a question:

Why do people do desperate things such as robbing other people?

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#72
post #58
post #54

In Sweden, I've been in contact with several companies and associations which are raising small solar farms and selling stocks on them (so, there is a primary market for stocks on renewables). Investment is affordable and transparent and it feels "grass-roots democratic". The problem with solar farms is that this time of the year, they don't produce power. The only green alternative that would produce power is nuclea…

What about wind power which is strong in winter? What about energy storage systems, e.g. using green gas? There seem to be more green options than nuclear power.

The past few days wind has been pretty bad. In the long term I think it will be good as battery storages are rising, but the next few years are still going to be tough.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#73
This is not a politician whose opinion anyone needs to take seriously. She's a constant source of extremely bad takes, the latest of which being dismissing expert criticism of her governments extremely poor plan to subsidize new nuclear construction.

Fwiw, nuclear phase-out was a bad call in both Germany and Sweden. New nuclear construction is an equally or worse choice at this moment, with where renewables and storage are today and the trend they are on - prices are already beating nuclear by a large margin and are plummeting, while nuclear keeps getting more expensive each year.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The Greens had partnered with the SPD from 1998 to 2005 (and then again recently since 2021 but that's no related to the subject). They directly contributed to creating the Energiewende program. Merkel & friends implemented it, but saying the greens just "indicated preference" is utter bullshit. It's also the greens today trying to exclude any nuclear project from benefiting from grants at the European level. The Gre…

> Merkel & friends implemented it

Do you mean they are puppets of the Greens and as opposition to red-green government could not reverse policies they have considered harmful?

> directly one of the sources of the current german problem

From 2005 to 2021 it was Merkel & Co in the government making most of the energy-related decisions, yet you single out Greens as the primary culprits. Why? Did they sign Nord Stream agreements?

> It's also the greens today trying to exclude any nuclear project from benefiting from grants at the European level.

How not starting any nuclear project now is relevant to the current situation? It’s a strange claim given the time and costs needed to build a single nuclear power plant. It’s would not solve anything in the next 10 years at least, will be the most expensive energy on the market and add a dependency on a external supplier outside of EU (you cannot seriously suggest that we should get our uranium from Africa or Kazakhstan, so it‘s going to be an American one, same terms as LNG?)

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#75
post #36

This blame game is all about supporting current political narratives about nuclear power etc. It's not really about the energy crisis. Sweden's energy mess is all about 'free markets'. Back in the old days the state-run energy companies in Sweden produced an overabundance of electricity, mostly from hydro, making Sweden one of the cheapest electricity countries in the world. It was really common to replace wood burne…

> ... and introduce 'energy zones' that get increasingly more expensive as you approach Denmark. > the utility companies get more money from selling that abroad than at home I don't understand how both statements can be true.

Electricity free market actions use a strange pricing scheme. Net puts out request for X amount of electricity. Providers bid. Then everybody in gets paid same price as the highest bid that made it in.

Cables connecting zones (or countries) are limited and move only part of the cheap electricity bids to the next zone. Thus more expensive bids make it raising the price. And there's a cascading effect how cheap energy gradually gets more expensive.

There's a live europe-wide electricity price map showing network events as well. It's very interesting to see how prices grade. And how big difference shows on one side if some connection between regions is down.

Local example here in Lithuania. We have quite fragile connection to Poland which seem to require a lot of maintenance for some reason. If Germany's renewables are doing good and link goes down, our energy prices go up. But if renewables are off and Scandinavian hydros are doing great, then same link going down means very cheap energy here...

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#76
post #37
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The green coalition governments across the EU are leaving a huge mess behind. De-industrialization at a pace never seen before at peace times. China is happy to fill in the void.

Maybe this shows the beginning of the end of capitalism. Sustainability is just incompatible with capitalism

More like sustainability only seems to be possible with this crony-capitalism that is going on in european energy markets nowadays. It wouldn't survive nor pure capitalist market, nor as a state service.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#77
post #32
post #6

Would have been a great opportunity to make money then by exporting their own nuclear power... if they hadn't shut a bunch of it down. Then they could have chosen to refund their own consumers, if that's what they wanted.

As you can see in France, you don't make money with nuclear power. Nuclear power is basically taking a loan (national security and trash which has to be stored at least thousands of years) with a huge risk (nuclear disaster like Chernobyl or worse).

Risk is minuscule, and modern reactors actually shut down gracefully. Nuclear waste is an issue, but frankly - vastly smaller one than other kinds of pollution(CO2 comes to mind - and sulfides) used in generating or storing - which is the biggest current problem of renewables - power, and that can be stored in relatively smaller space.

This kind of misguided thinking has stopped us from utilizing nuclear power properly. It is a greatest stopgap we have before we find a way to store energy properly and can pivot to renewables.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#78
post #39

Swedish government: "We'll only use electric cars!" Also swedish government: "Please don't vacuum or do laundry on cold days when everyone has extra heaters on" Also swedish government: "Everyone's income is public record!" Also swedish government: "We'll give money to people with large homes. The larger the home the more money they will get, because they have more costs for heating." Also swedish government: "This m…

> Sweden is a very corrupt capitalist country that is still riding the socialist image they created long ago. What I don't understand is how the people living here can't see this. It's absolutely incomprehensible how naive they are. I don't know how the state could make it any clearer that it does not share their values and is not what people seem to think it is. That Sweden died long ago.

That's what happens when government is pretty good for a long time and people get used to trusting it over multiple generations.

This is the biggest cultural shock for 100%-eastern-european-me when I'm exposed to western europe. Why would people trust governments, media and so on? I'll never understand it. Do your own due diligence, prepare for the worst and brace for a beating from government which wants to sell you out. Is it a good way to live? Probably not. But looks like it's the natural state.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#79
post #65
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about wind power which is strong in winter? What about energy storage systems, e.g. using green gas? There seem to be more green options than nuclear power.

I think that's a problem everywhere in Europe. We build wind and we build solar, but we don't build storage systems to go with them.

A few additions:

As long as there is enough production capacity (using fossil fuels), it isn't a serious problem, even though not ideal.

Storage systems are economically viable only if there is a high price difference, especially when you have to pay twice the network fee (recently temporarily dropped in Germany).

CO2 pricing will increase the price difference with time (renewable energy stays cheap and fossil backups will be more expensive, making room on the market for businesses storing energy)

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Greens had partnered with the SPD from 1998 to 2005 (and then again recently since 2021 but that's no related to the subject). They directly contributed to creating the Energiewende program. Merkel & friends implemented it, but saying the greens just "indicated preference" is utter bullshit. It's also the greens today trying to exclude any nuclear project from benefiting from grants at the European level. The Gre…

> Merkel & friends implemented it Do you mean they are puppets of the Greens and as opposition to red-green government could not reverse policies they have considered harmful? > directly one of the sources of the current german problem From 2005 to 2021 it was Merkel & Co in the government making most of the energy-related decisions, yet you single out Greens as the primary culprits. Why? Did they sign Nord Stream ag…

>yet you single out Greens as the primary culprits. Why? Did they sign Nord Stream agreements?

You're incredibly defensive when all I have done is point out that saying "the greens aren't responsible for it" is a blatant lie. Especially when your purposefully ignore the next sentence, which still puts the blame on Merkel & Friends for continuing to implement it, in their case because it was lucrative to sign agreements with Russia for gas.(Especially this sack of shit Gerhard Schröder.)

>How not starting any nuclear project now is relevant to the current situation?

Aside from the fact that they have been on the offensive not just in 2024, but for close to a decade now (the Fessenheim closure has been demanded since 2016, green taxonomy started in 2020), because of this:

https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE/24h

There has not been a _single_ day, a single month, a single year where the german electricity production has been under 200g eqCO2/kWh. Not a single one. The entire project has been slowly killing the planet, one day at a time, because technically illiterate and incompetent people have been leading your country.

>It’s a strange claim given the time and costs needed to build a single nuclear power plant.

While recent developments in Europe have been funny, to say the least (lol Flamanville/Hinkley Point C/Okilouto), half of these costs are caused by incredibly tight regulations, and another huge part has been caused by a gigantic loss of talent, which tends to happen when you demonize an entire industry for 30 years. There's also the fact that most of the recent constructions are new designs, which, yeah, require discovering flaws, unfortunately. China has 5-year construction speeds for nuclear plants using proven designs.

> It’s would not solve anything in the next 10 years at least

Considering renewables have not been solving anything in the past ten years alone, and will not solve anything in the net 10 years either, how about we start looking a little bit further than our noses and build _both_ ?

>will be the most expensive energy on the market

1/ lol lies 2/ lol renewables literally not working for a whole week in germany last week 3/ lol germany pushing for a common energy market where the price of the energy is based on the most expensive energy source available. Nuclear will never be the most expensive as long as we have gas burners for 400€/kWh.

>and add a dependency on a external supplier outside of EU (you cannot seriously suggest that we should get our uranium from Africa or Kazakhstan, so it‘s going to be an American one, same terms as LNG?)

Aside from the fact that I can _absolutely seriously suggest that_ and that I wouldn't take geopolitics lessons from Germany, thank you, we can also discover new sources of raw uranium (hell, even France is full of it, it's just cheaper to get it from Niger despite the instabilities), we can work forward on reusing and making nuclear "waste" useful (Breeder reactors have been an option, killing Superphénix was a mistake (but also the right choice from a financial perspective), keep it as a research reactor).

Germany has had an absolutely blind and ignorant world view of energy production, making it an absolute catastrophe of an energy market that gets covered by other european countries. It's not renewables OR nuclear. It's never been, and that a dichotomy that's been pushed forwards by morons. It's both. I'll be perfectly happy to turn off every single nuclear reactor in the world the day we guarantee all of our needs are fully covered by renewables ,which is going to require a _lot_ of overcapacity, or a globalized electricity grid (I thought depending on Africa and Russia was a bad idea?).

Renewables aren't the solution. They're part of it, and as it stands, aren't enough. Turn off your fucking coal burners and build nuclear, now.

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