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AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

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Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#71

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #69
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite a dupe because Techdirt typically adds details and background to these stories. Karl Bode in particular has been writing about bad ISP behavior for longer - and more persistently - than most anyone. He brings it to the table. I've been reading him for 20y. Over and over he's been the sole source of sunshine on certain dark telecom corners.

'not quite' doesn't cut it. The point is don't split up the discussion, which is over there. This one doesn't add as much to the arstechnica article. Share Karl's weird obtuse link-heavy writing style over there if need be.

> 'not quite' doesn't cut it.

Sure it does. Cleanly.

> This one doesn't add as much to the arstechnica article.

Karl's backlinks help complete (and provide further evidence of) the narrative about AT&Ts long, long history of gross unethical behavior and consumer mistreatment.

The links are the backstory that belong in ~every article about bad telecom behaviors (but are usually missing). Evidencing assertions is part of stellar journalism.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#72

Post by adastra22 »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #21
adastra22 wrote: post #5

I gave up on waiting. I live in Silicon Valley, and was stuck with a 50Mbps DSL line from AT&T. Insane.

Internet connection is a personal top priority when choosing a residence. Why haven’t you moved?

Having a good school for the kids, a safe walkable neighborhood, and land where we can put down roots matter more.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#73

Post by adastra22 »

ghaff wrote: post #38
bitmasher9 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet connection is a personal top priority when choosing a residence. Why haven’t you moved?

A usable Internet connection is important. I certainly wouldn't move because I "only" had a reliable 50mbps connection. That's about what I have (not in Bay Area) and don't really have a complaint.

I would get dropped from video calls if my wife or kids started downloading something. I’ve managed to fix this with QoS, but there is a noticeable loss of quality.

Ultimately we switched to cable internet, but given the bandwidth I use running home servers, I expect to be forced onto a corporate plan once they notice, at $200-$500/mo. My usage is within terms of service for AT&T fiber, fwiw, but cable is a shared resource.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#74

Post by adastra22 »

ghaff wrote: post #47
Der_Einzige wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because moving out of the bay area, even with shit internet, is extraordinarily stupid if you work in tech.

That sounds like a perfectly usable Internet connection but tons of reasons one might choose to move out of the Bay Area. There are various good reasons to live there (including some that have nothing to do with employment) but the idea that you must in tech is misguided.

50Mbps of a raw link is is 5MB/s, split into dedicated 4MB/s down and 1MB/s up. That’s a half hour to download a Linux ISO, and only enough upload for 1 video call. It definitely affects work.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#75

Post by adastra22 »

imchillyb wrote: post #46
bitmasher9 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet connection is a personal top priority when choosing a residence. Why haven’t you moved?

Do you have children? I ask this because no matter what personal preferences people have, many sacrifices are made for the kiddos. Move for good schools and extra curricular activities. Move for good sports programs. Move for after school care. Move for better fiber though? Doubt momma is gonna be happy about that idea. If momma ain’t happy. Ain’t nobody movin nowhere.

Yes, kids are the primary factor here. We moved near their school, on a house lot large enough for us to expand as they get older, on the outskirts of a wealthy neighborhood, but at a price we can afford.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#76

Post by wing-_-nuts »

umeshunni wrote: post #62
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would painting a satellite black 'seriously constrain' them? Why do we let corporations foist externalities on science and the general public? Either you can engineer a solution, or you can't, and if you can't, you don't belong in space.

Painting a satellite black wouldn't solve the problem that they would still block the stars behind them when passing overhead. Instead of light streaks, you now have dark streaks across a region of the sky.

I mean that's like saying that a star's brightness isn't a problem when searching for exo planets, and they only block you from seeing the objects behind them. Obviously that's not true. Light pollution from orbital satellites is a real thing.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#77

Post by axus »

danans wrote: post #67

What this tells me is that industries with limited growth potential and who are focused on incremental rather than transformative technology do not respond to government carrots, and to the extent that they do anything, it is to arrange scenarios where they privatize the carrots and socialize the costs. There is no return on investment for investments in rural fiber. Infrastructure needs a high density of users to be…

Subsidize community broadband, and stop subsidizing it when the incumbents rush fiber there. The current subsidy scheme hasn't worked.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#78

Post by 6SixTy »

danans wrote: post #67

What this tells me is that industries with limited growth potential and who are focused on incremental rather than transformative technology do not respond to government carrots, and to the extent that they do anything, it is to arrange scenarios where they privatize the carrots and socialize the costs. There is no return on investment for investments in rural fiber. Infrastructure needs a high density of users to be…

Problem is that we live in an environment where a company like AT&T can lobby for basically anything they want, and have basically no accountability when they don't meet their obligations.

You even have people telling stories where they could get fiber service, but the provider just doesn't want to.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#79

Post by lowmagnet »

ghaff wrote: post #61
Neonlicht wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it the US government is why every American home- from the deserts in Nevada to the mountains in Virginia- has electricity. And that investment has paid for itself a million times over.

Every is a bit of an overstatement. Generators in some places are a thing. (And so are fairly large areas without houses.) But generally, yes, also subject to the caveats in another comment. Satellite broadband does seem to be the "hack" for making locations that don't have broadband or really usable cell coverage in many cases practical.

Sorry but it's not satellite broadband, it's the same rural electrification that is the "hack".

My electric cooperative rolled out fiber to every address in the 3-county region it covers. It did so within a year. How? They already run poles everywhere, so they asked "why should we bury fiber?" As it turns out, it's easier to scale out on the pole!

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#80

Post by throw7 »

rant: A few months ago I got a flyer that I can now get Verizon 5G at my home. I read that as fiber and got so excited I texted my neighbor barely a mile away that finally after all these years I can get fiber to the home just like him. Imagine my anger when I realized that's not fiber dummy that's cell wireless.
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