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"Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

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Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#72
post #35

Unsuprising. The crypto validators in the past were the canaries in the coal mine for Hetzner and almost no-one cared when they were cancelled off of Hetzner. Now they terminated your servers and the same has happened to them. After all, Hetzner is now priotizing shareholder value and is removing smaller customers wasting their compute resources.

[deleted]

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#73
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No response usually means it's a legal case.

Or, it's 13:00 on a Monday in Berlin, customer support/PR department just got started and are working through the weekend backlog, haven't had time yet to respond in any reasonable way.

If you terminate accounts on/over a weekend, you should have support staff over the weekend.

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#74
post #53
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they receive a DMCA they will contact you and give you 24hours to reply and fix it. If you do not comply they will turn off your IP. However this is more related to EU regulation rather than Hetzner itself. Hosting things within the EU has become really tough.

Which EU regulation? I don't know of any relevant to this. Only American law.

It's German not EU level, the NetzDG act has a 24 hour turnaround time for taking down content that is "clearly" illegal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act

Unfortunately the act is designed to block vague categories like "hate speech" and "misinformation" and has huge fines attached, so it's designed to ensure that very trigger-happy enforcement is the only workable strategy. It was written to whack Facebook and Google primarily but it's possible that the wording also captures Hetzner, or they're worried that it might.

If they do feel they fall under it then they'd probably have to automate takedowns in response to abuse reports. As otherwise they'd need 24/7 on-call content reviewers, which goes against their low cost nature. So if this is the cause it's really an issue with German law being unfriendly to smaller/cheaper content hosters.

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#75

Whenever I ask a CTO if they have a backup (or plan-B) they say we're on AWS, we backup there and they will never go down as a company. And then I ask them what they do when their account gets shut (e.g. because they are selling something bad on Amazon and have the same phone number as the company account?) Or the instance some years ago where GCP closed because someone had wrongly classified image on their drive? Yo…

I agree about data backups but replicating your setup in another cloud provider is:

1) Expensive

2) Not straightforward, e.g. is there a 1:1 setup in another cloud for your system?

3) Likely to go untested and be useless when you need it most

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#76

Hang on, Hetzner literally deleted all their data without warning? That’s actually insane and business killing. Both for Hetzner’s reputation and potentially for their customer.

Honestly as much as we like to hammer on EU (lack of) companies, one potential improvement point is customer service German companies are awful at customer service. Even within the EU

>German companies are awful at customer service.

True also from my experience. I've noted several potential reasons why that is from my time in Germany.

Government provided customer protection laws are quite lax and disputes tricky to win and don't represent a big enough deterrent for the scammers when they're just a slap on the wrist and therefore part of the cost of doing business. Sure, you can get sued and you loose once, but if 80 of the 100 customers you scammed don't sue you or don't win, then you're still at a net positive and therefore it's profitable to keep doing that.

Also that Germany doesn't have common law, so lawsuits aren't arbitrated based on precedent, so customers who got screwed need to sue and win individually for the same issue which is favorable for the companies doing the screwing as without the precedent of common law that minimizes their risk of loosing by slam dunk every time. Also, some German judges art just tech illiterate boomers who will throw out a case they don't even understand unless you're Axel Springer.

(some) Rental agreements, internet, telco and gym memberships are my favorite infamous examples. They're almost universally regarded as anti-consumer, with tonnes of sketchy clauses, but German lawmakers do nothing to improve that for the consumer.

Secondly, Germans aren't used to being very demanding and lighting a brand on fire on social media the way Americans/Anglophones do on Twitter when they don't like something, partly because of cultural reasons where making a fuss in public is discouraged/shamed, partly because of legal reasons where a company can sue your or at least send you scary legal letters for libel if you damage their brand online like that in Germany. Or at lest, the company can simply demand the social media platform take down the offending posts, and by German law they have to comply which the likes of Google/Meta will comply automatically without any arbitration.

Also, culturally, the conservative Germans seem to have have gaslit themselves into believing everything "Made in Germany" is perfect without fault, while everything made abroad is of poor quality or at least worthy of scrutiny, so they just default to using German products without looking across the fence to check out the foreign competition. This way of thinking is more typical of manufactured goods but not sure how much it applies to SW products and services.

Couple these with the difficulty of starting and scaling a business in Germany as a small entrepreneur and with the legal and bureaucratic hoops designed to keep foreign competitors out, mean that German companies operating in Germany who became established players, have litte incentive to improve beyond the bare minimum, so they can keep providing poor quality services while still staying in business. It's classic of an economy of well connected dinosaurs sitting on old money.

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#77

8TB isn't too bad to restore. At that scale they can backup on a local drive daily for very little money

Backing up to local RAID is nice, unless you're using local RAID as your primary storage in the first place, like we do. I'd looked into using a combination of AWS S3 Glacier and FUSE (s3fs?) for rigging snapshots to S3 via btrbk but it seems the semantics of Glacier don't align all too well, and backing up 40 TB+ worth of WAL on a monthly to S3 is more expensive than it should be unless you're using that storage class.

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#78
post #30
post #5

also negative experiences here. if they get a copyright-violation request from someone, they won't contact you about it. they'll just take your server down immediately and ask you to respond. obviously thats not a sane course of action and i cannot recommend using them for any kind of production systems. i am always angry if i see articles about them here on HN because such a vendor should be blacklisted and not prom…

> i am always angry if i see articles about them here on HN because such a vendor should be blacklisted and not promoted. Is it possible that maybe others had a different experience than you, and those experiences are as valid as your own? Besides, what was your website about? I've received notices I had to reply to within 24-hours, otherwise they delete the servers. But I've always replied and complied, so never had…

> Besides, what was your website about? I've received notices I had to reply to within 24-hours, otherwise they delete the servers. But I've always replied and complied, so never had any servers deleted.

some random app vendor didn't like the free promotion on our website https://macupdater.net/

we can delete any "offending" page within a few hours, but taking the whole server offline first and asking questions later is not OK by Hetzner.

others had better experiences and got a 24-hour timeframe. just asking but is this during business hours or can they send you a notice on saturday and you'll be offline by sunday? doesn't seem much better.

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#79

I can't stress how important it is to own your own hardware and colocate. Also, if you are paying for a dedicated server, you can often save money by moving to colocation.

Colo is a lot more expensive than some dedi or VM somewhere. Can you provide me with a 12 core 32gb ecc 2TB ssd for 33eur/m? I doubt it.

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#80

Hang on, Hetzner literally deleted all their data without warning? That’s actually insane and business killing. Both for Hetzner’s reputation and potentially for their customer.

Honestly as much as we like to hammer on EU (lack of) companies, one potential improvement point is customer service German companies are awful at customer service. Even within the EU

>German companies are awful at customer service. Even within the EU

one would have to reconsider a century of stereotypes if they weren't.

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