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Performance improvement plans are on the rise

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Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#71

Post by dangus »

delecti wrote: post #29

I got put on a PIP at Amazon, and even at the time I thought it was a reasonable criticism. I then worked hard, graduated out of the PIP, and stayed there a few more years. (I also opted-in to a second PIP (with my manager's knowledge and assistance) when I was leaving so I could get severance, but I don't really count that) One of my current mentees got put on a PIP a couple years ago, and she likewise has significa…

This type of PIP is so far in the minority that any suggestion to expend energy to try and graduate out of it is misguided.

Essentially, you statistically won the lottery.

The probabilistic advice to anyone who gets a PIP is to do the absolute bare minimum at your job and focus all your time and effort on acquiring your next one.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#72

Post by mrbungie »

neofrommatrix wrote: post #58
deskr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth can you be a good manager and not realize that saying "your performance is shit, we're going to fire you unless you take this course and we deem you've passed" is totally and utterly soul destroying to a person?

Maybe they like the power, and this makes them feel powerful. Signs of a good manager, of course. /s

Putting people in PIP or firing them, are not good experiences, period. Only socio/psychopaths would feel powerful and good about having peoples future in their hands, and not all managers are socio/psycopaths.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#73

Post by icedchai »

chrisdhoover wrote: post #53
InDubioProRubio wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is what pip percentages say about management. Either HR hires and management approves 20 % duds - or your company is a rockstar shredder machine. Neither is a pleasant truth.

I think .20 is an underestimate. Under performers are likely in the .25 to .35 percent range. It is hard to find the right people and so there is an acceptance of good enough. The PIPs start with the most egregious or if cash flow is tight. An owner I worked for called it trimming the dead wood. From the business side it is best to get rid of some people. Its best for the remaining people too.

I agree. The low performers drag down the rest of the team. Generally, they're not only slow, but the quality of work is poor, requiring constant attention from other team members. Often, the individuals are totally unreliable. They don't respond to messages, won't do PR reviews in a timely manner, resulting in cascading frustrations. You can't give them anything critical or it becomes a blocker...

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#74

Post by asdff »

arresin wrote: post #69
FireBeyond wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked as a PM at a well known tech company, great relationship with my director. He leaves, new director comes in and within three months I'm on a PIP. I'm given a list of work products to create for a new offering that has been discussed, which on the face of it are entirely reasonable, and the standard 30 days. 100% ghosted by my Director. Weekly 1:1s? He no-shows 2 of them. Near zero input. In "fairness", I knew…

Can you sue or something in that situation?

For what? You can be fired whenever in most jobs. Most you can do is tell the story on linkedin and make the manager look like an ass. No point in maintaining bridges that go straight to the dump.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#75

Post by dangus »

kareiva wrote: post #5

There is nothing to hate here. I have given numerous PIP's as a manager and only actually fired once. The purpose of a PIP is to improve, not to fire a person.

The company you worked for that allowed you to operate this way is in the minority. For 99% of companies the PIP is a documentation and CYA step to ensure that the employee goes away quietly, without things like filing for unemployment or suing the company.

For most companies the purpose of a PIP is to fire a person.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#76

Post by firesteelrain »

From reading the comments, people must work at places who use a lot of PIPs. It is an actual documented process at my large employer but I know if anyone got put on one then they would freak out. Probably go nuclear rather than improve. Managers are afraid to put people on them.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#78

Post by itake »

asdff wrote: post #70
itake wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIPs are a double edged blade. If the worker passes the pip, but regresses immediately, then we can't just keep yo-yoing with multiple pips per year. So unfortunately, this means when an EM creates a PIP, to prevent Yo-Yoing, they need you to leave.

How do you know its the workers fault and not the nature of this role in the company?

I can't speak for EM roles, but ICs have many peers in similar roles to compare them to.

Also, there is an unofficial "pre-pip" phase, where the EM tries to correct these issues. Pips are the nuclear option that cost the EM a lot of time with almost no career benefits.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#79

Post by jayd16 »

asdff wrote: post #70
itake wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIPs are a double edged blade. If the worker passes the pip, but regresses immediately, then we can't just keep yo-yoing with multiple pips per year. So unfortunately, this means when an EM creates a PIP, to prevent Yo-Yoing, they need you to leave.

How do you know its the workers fault and not the nature of this role in the company?

As a manager it's your job to discern that, right?

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#80

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

outside1234 wrote: post #31
OutOfHere wrote: post #22

Employment is at-will. It's better to just fire without the PIP drama. As it is, a PIP does not provide legal cover if the employee writes back, effectively rejecting it.

Employment is at-will but you can’t fire someone for non-work reasons. The PIP is there to collect the data that they are firing someone for work reasons.

Maybe I need my understanding corrected. I thought the point of at-will was that you very much could fire someone for nearly reason (you support the Cubs, pack up your desk!). You cannot fire someone for protected classes (gender, race, etc), but basically everything else is fair game.
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