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It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

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Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#71

Post by zeroCalories »

ionwake wrote: post #50
seanhunter wrote: post #29

If you think something you have to do in an interview is “humiliating” when all they’re asking you to do is demonstrate some skill on a whiteboard you have some self-reflection to do. I don’t personally think leetcode is that great for interviews but candidates who act like it’s above them to figure out problems etc have a serious problem. In other fields this is not only completely normal but absolutely something pe…

I completely disagree with you seanhunter ( and everyone else mostly) so please dont take offence I could be wrong but the following is my opinion. I am thankful most companies are gatekept by people who think like you as I feel it gives me and my company an advantage. In the UK over the course of nearly 20 years I was asked by random interviews to do "fizzbuzz" which I always refused to do out of principle. The prob…

Many people fail fizzbuzz. Most interview questions at big tech are not much harder than fizzbuzz. You are not qualified to be a software engineer if you can't write fizzbuzz after seeing it for the first time in your life.

Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#72

Post by bArray »

seanhunter wrote: post #29

If you think something you have to do in an interview is “humiliating” when all they’re asking you to do is demonstrate some skill on a whiteboard you have some self-reflection to do. I don’t personally think leetcode is that great for interviews but candidates who act like it’s above them to figure out problems etc have a serious problem. In other fields this is not only completely normal but absolutely something pe…

> If you think something you have to do in an interview is “humiliating” when all they’re asking you to do is demonstrate some skill on a whiteboard you have some self-reflection to do.

I don't know about the author, but some places are asking for a coding exam that takes hours or days. The process of application itself can be a long and complex ordeal where they suddenly stop responding, only to find out weeks later only after you chase them that they already had somebody for the part but wasted your time to make it seem like they went through a proper process. Then if you get the job, you move to the area and sign up to a 6-12 month rent agreement when the probation period is 3 months or less where they can dismiss for any reason.

I think more can be done to even up the relationship. The more the employer demands as part of their process for hiring, the more they should provide the person going through these hoops. The risk is really quite unbalanced.

I know excellent engineers essentially stuck where they work because they cannot afford to miss the mortgage payments. Yes they can get interviews all day long, but the risk of jumping to a different ship is immense.

Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#73

Post by zeroCalories »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #34

People really hate coding interviews but they now exist as a "stupid test." Academia has a problem with possibly fraudulent papers and grade inflation. It is inevitable that companies won't trust the papers and grades/degrees like they did in the past.

I trust a Harvard undergrad more than I trust a second or third tier grad student. It's so easy to shit out mediocre work and build accolades without actually being able to do anything these days.

Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#74

Post by piva00 »

foooorsyth wrote: post #57
remram wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This tweet is about "grinding", eg the time-consuming prep work before interviews. I think.

All other serious endeavors require endless “grinding”. Imagine a hockey player being annoyed about being asked to tryout. Imagine whining about having to practice their skating or shooting. Compared to many other things, software engineering requires astonishingly low prep. Your average high school baseball player has spent more time in the batting cage to earn a varsity letter than the median SF SWE has spent on le…

Batting in the batting cage is much closer to skills required to perform as a batter than Leetcode problems are to perform at most jobs as a software engineer.

Is there some overlap of Leetcode problems and real world problem solving? Yeah, a little but most of my time is not solving yet another algorithmic problem but thinking about the problem from a business/product perspective, decomposing it, uncovering and understanding requirements, designing code that will be easily read and modifiable by people in the future, etc. 95+% of my time on the job is not trying to figure out what's the best way to find the number of inversions of a red-black tree.

There are jobs that hard and deep knowledge of algorithms is important, for those please go ahead and keep testing people on it. The vast majority of the jobs requiring people to jump through Leetcode hoops is not that, and a lot of those interviews are not testing for what is actually needed to perform the job well.

Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#75

Post by paxys »

seanhunter wrote: post #29

If you think something you have to do in an interview is “humiliating” when all they’re asking you to do is demonstrate some skill on a whiteboard you have some self-reflection to do. I don’t personally think leetcode is that great for interviews but candidates who act like it’s above them to figure out problems etc have a serious problem. In other fields this is not only completely normal but absolutely something pe…

Not to mention that the interview process in a lot of fields without any objective hiring criteria consists of the hiring manager being friends with your uncle or your grandparents going to the same country club as the CEO. I'll take what we have, thanks.

Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#76

Post by uberman »

seanhunter wrote: post #29

If you think something you have to do in an interview is “humiliating” when all they’re asking you to do is demonstrate some skill on a whiteboard you have some self-reflection to do. I don’t personally think leetcode is that great for interviews but candidates who act like it’s above them to figure out problems etc have a serious problem. In other fields this is not only completely normal but absolutely something pe…

Demonstrating core competency is one thing, leetcode is typically not that though.

Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#77

Post by mettamage »

instig007 wrote: post #65

> I have written more code than most people If by most people you mean non-programmers, then maybe. Otherwise it sounds like a whining of a B-player who just realized they've never had skills sufficient for NFL. The fact of the matter is the better you're in understanding CS and the underlying mathematical domains, the easier the leetcode questions get, it always has been and always will be. And contrary to most beli…

Are you up for coaching? Sounds like you'd be a fun stern coach (well I think someone stern is fun).

Just for like 15 to 30 min. per week, nothing much. My email is in my profile.

About me in short:

2 bachelors, 2 masters (bsc: psych, CS, msc: game-design, CS).

Software engineer for 4 years

Teacher (programming) for 2 years

300 leetcode questions done (not sure if I'm doing it for interview prep or fun or both, don't need to go the leetcode route anymore but I find it a rewarding endeavor)

I sometimes expand my math capabilities for funzies

My email is in my profile

Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#78

Post by paxys »

zeroCalories wrote: post #71
ionwake wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree with you seanhunter ( and everyone else mostly) so please dont take offence I could be wrong but the following is my opinion. I am thankful most companies are gatekept by people who think like you as I feel it gives me and my company an advantage. In the UK over the course of nearly 20 years I was asked by random interviews to do "fizzbuzz" which I always refused to do out of principle. The prob…

Many people fail fizzbuzz. Most interview questions at big tech are not much harder than fizzbuzz. You are not qualified to be a software engineer if you can't write fizzbuzz after seeing it for the first time in your life.

"Many people" is an understatement. In my experience 70%+ of applicants fail basic fizzbuzz or reverse a string level questions. If you think these questions are beneath you, good, you've just made my job easier as an interviewer.

Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#79

Post by uberman »

paxys wrote: post #70
marcosdumay wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's possibly some worldview mismatch on your comment, because leetcode isn't "basic scales" programming for any specialty. It's much closer to expect your world famous violin player to sing on the stage than it is to expect them to play scales on the violin. But then, maybe not. Some people call all kinds of random exercises by "leetcode". The author may be one of those, I don't know if anybody can know this.

Basic data structures and algorithms knowledge is a base skill that will translate to better success in any software job. Yes you may not be coding graphs in your day job (although you might - I have personally done it before), but someone who can grasp stuff like BFS vs DFS and Dijkstra's algorithm will absolutely be better at the job than someone who comes in and says "idk who cares, I'll just use a library".

BFS? Really, there are libraries for that and I would hire a kid who timidly used one as they could not remember how to implement it over someone who confidently introduced and off by one bug because they thought they knew how to implement it without references.

Re: It is humiliating to have to do LeetCode grinding for

#80

Post by odyssey7 »

zero-sharp wrote: post #28
odyssey7 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interviews are posturing, not work. The tweet explains all of the work that the candidate is proud to have done, and the disappointment at being judged in a posturing pageant instead.

If you're not already rich, my suggestion is to get used to the idea of passing purely formal tests. It's a really common part of life for everyone else. Sorry.

Coexisting with the system is not the same thing as never questioning the world around you.
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